Warning: Some posts on this platform may contain adult material intended for mature audiences only. Viewer discretion is advised. By clicking ‘Continue’, you confirm that you are 18 years or older and consent to viewing explicit content.
Anthony Sabatini, who is running for Congress in Florida's 11th district, reportedly made the remarks during June's Florida Teenage Republicans Youth Summit.
Private in this context means charter, which is still state funded. Furthermore with more market share there would be enough demand for affordable private schools, as seen in India where government schools are infamous.
I mean, there have been examples of government funded vouchers ending up going to scam charter schools because Republicans are also deregulating private schools. There are lots of horror stories about charter schools.
I’m sure there are, personally I prefer decentralized schooling and ending mandatory schooling. My experience in public school was terrible for me, by far the worst experiences of my life.
Stop strawmanning what I said, it’s not a discussion or argument- it’s just insulting. And, no, saying people shouldn’t be forced to do unpaid labor for 13 years of their lives forced to sit in desks when their body is built to move and learning things that honestly are not, and will not be useful for the vast majority of them. If it were about basic knowledge there would just be one test and when you pass it you don’t have to go to school anymore. But it’s not.
I’m not saying people shouldn’t have the choice, I do support the choice. I just don’t support false imprisonment
I was going to give you a real answer but I took a little trip through your history and I think I understand what you’re saying now, this conversation is over.
Cool, have fun trying to compete economically with China and Europe with optional education in math and science. Your idea sounds nice in theory, but it’s completely divorced from reality.
May I ask, Did all your teachers do this, or one in specific? Did your teachers refuse to teach you to read and the burden of literacy was solely on your parents?
May I ask, Did all your teachers do this, or one in specific?
In elementary school it was roughly half or more of them. There were a couple good(from my perspective obviously) teachers at that school, but it might have been below average.
Did your teachers refuse to teach you to read and the burden of literacy was solely on your parents?
I imagine they would have, but most people in my classes learned from their parents.
You’re personal life aside, cause I understand middle/high school is the worst, what do you mean by “decentralized schooling” and what does that mean in your view? Is it curriculum or who “runs” the building?
I think there should not be a centralized curriculum and instead schools can choose to teach different things and students choose what schools they go to(which is partially how it worked in my city). Also, it would be great if students could choose to enroll in classes that they thought were interesting and useful to them- and not enroll in others. But, the most fundamental thing, if you think schooling is about basic education than you should just be able to test out of it. My mom and grandma are both public school teachers, and both have agreed with me that the top performing academically in 9th grade know more of the curriculum than the bottom 20% of 12th grade graduates.
Also, the worst for me was actually elementary school.
My mom and grandma are both public school teachers. I had a few good public school teachers throughout my education. One of my good friends is a public school teacher. I never said people working in public schools were evil. I said it is immoral to trap students there against their will.
Charter schools are hell for educators and students don’t benefit. The reason why conservatives push for charter schools is because then they don’t have to worry about the separation of church and state. Basically they want public schools, but with Christian nationalism. This means they’d strip schools of scientific rigor, tell us Teachers to teach that God made the heavens and earth a couple thousand years ago, people rode dinosaurs like cowboys, and we’re all either going to heaven or hell. I have parents who push for this already. Their agenda is more of the same, anti intellectual, Christian nationalism.
Charter schools are hell for educators and students don’t benefit.
Charter schools are not a monolithic entity, I’m sure some are terrible- but I’ve also seen some that seem to be good, obviously I’ve never been enrolled in one but at least in the public school district I went to it was terrible for a lot of teachers- and harmful to my education and mental health.
The reason why conservatives push for charter schools is because then they don’t have to worry about the separation of church and state.
There are a lot of non-religious charter schools, I am not a fan of religious schools- but it is not my place to impose my beliefs on other people’s children.
This means they’d strip schools of scientific rigor, tell us Teachers to teach that God made the heavens and earth a couple thousand years ago, people rode dinosaurs like cowboys, and we’re all either going to heaven or hell.
Do you think people should be able to homeschool or pay for their children to go to a private school?
Charter schools are not a monolithic entity, I’m sure some are terrible- but I’ve also seen some that seem to be good, obviously I’ve never been enrolled in one but at least in the public school district I went to it was terrible for a lot of teachers- and harmful to my education and mental health.
No reason to speculate. Charter schools have been studied extensively:
It makes no fucking difference if the school is charter or not unless you’re a Black or Latino kid in a big city. At least from the perspective of test scores.
This suggests that there’s really no advantage to charter schools unless you’re using them as a means to limit class sizes in big cities (which is where that measured effect of improved scores for Black and Latino students comes from). In other words, 30+ years of studying charter schools has once again proved that the biggest factor in improving test scores is smaller class sizes. Every other factor from curriculum to “good teachers VS bad teachers” to teaching styles to how many hours kids spend in classrooms is all nothing in comparison.
Having said that, charter schools have some major statistical advantages over regular (funded via socialism) schools:
They don’t have to take all students. In any given year a regular school has to adjust the number of teachers and classes based on enrollment. If there was a single-year baby boom (e.g. a big storm came through ~6 years ago) they’ll have to hire teachers and somehow “find room” for kids they weren’t sized to handle. This makes the logistics of a charter school much simpler than a regular one and has an enormous impact on measurements of “efficiency”.
It’s far too easy for charter schools to force out kids they don’t like (e.g. underperforming or special needs).
Charter schools don’t have to follow the same curriculum as regular schools. This means they can “teach to the test” far more than regular schools can. This gives them a huge statistical advantage over regular schools that have to give kids a more well-rounded education.
…but forget all that for a moment: The fact that even after 30+ years of evolution charter schools still aren’t outperforming regular schools indicates that they’re a waste of time. If we actually wanted to improve education in this country there’s a few simple changes we can make that would have vastly more impact than charter schools:
Reduce class sizes. The fewer students per teacher the better they do!
Start school later for older children. High school kids should not be waking up at 5AM to go to school! Study after study has shown this has a great big negative impact on academics!
That’s it! Do those two things and the science says our kids will be better educated. Everything else is just shifting the deck chairs around or just wishful thinking (“let’s make all teachers great teachers!”).
BTW: If we want teaching (as a profession) to improve over time we should probably start by paying them more and making it a more stable career. You know, to keep them around instead of having them get so dissatisfied that the majority leave the profession after a few years. Other things like not passing idiotic “Don’t say Gay” laws would also help in this regards.
If you went to a charter school they’re just gonna let you go wandering around willy nilly?
I’ve been a teacher in various countries around the world. Some, mainly third world countries, do just let kids go do whatever if they don’t want to learn. These kids usually end up pumping gas, working a cash register, or some other low skill low wage job.
If you went to a charter school they’re just gonna let you go wandering around willy nilly?
No of course not. I think both public and charter schools should allow it however.
These kids usually end up pumping gas, working a cash register, or some other low skill low wage job.
It’s not my place or your place to tell other people what’s best for them. They should have the right to choose to do what they want. There is nothing demeaning about working in a low skill or low wage job obviously it is a bad situation if the wage is too low- but it isn’t always. One of the jobs I’ve had that I enjoyed the most was delivery, my other jobs have been “skilled”.
They should have the right to choose to do what they want.
Wait you are telling me that, at the age of 7 you were ready to make decisions that affect your entire life? If sitting at a desk for 10 years and learning basic life skills for free is abuse and gave you PTSD… As you said… Just how would you feel sitting at a gas station for 40 years, inhaling carcinogen fumes, and living at a very basic level as a result of the decisions you made as a young child? You basically had a bad experience, and I understand. I hated school as well. It’s actually why I became a teacher. I don’t want to be an abusive dick like my teachers were. But what you are saying is that a young child, who has no basic life skills, should just be able to leave school because it sucks. But the repercussions are that the rest of their life might suck and they’re not gonna blame themselves. They’re going to blame circumstances. In all honesty, aquiring an education is a privilege, and it is a recent development in society that we universally get a basic education. If it seemed like a horrible experience, well it’s behind you. All I am saying is you should have a bit of gratitude for the education you received. If not that, gratitude for the education your mother received, so that she could teach you to read. You seem very intelligent, but you’d not be able to use your intelligence if you didn’t have basic literacy… And consider if your mother, herself, was illiterate and couldn’t teach you. Wouldn’t school be such a gift?
Wait you are telling me that, at the age of 7 you were ready to make decisions that affect your entire life?
I think anyone at any age should be able to enroll in basic education. I think the basics of what is taught in schools and truly necessary could be taught to most people in under 4 years.
gave you PTSD
I didn’t say PTSD.
learning basic life skills
That is a tiny fraction of what public education is.
Just how would you feel sitting at a gas station for 40 years
You mean getting paid and providing a service of value? I’d much prefer it.
You basically had a bad experience
I personally would’ve been much better off not engaging in schooling at all. Everything that has been useful to me I either was taught by my parents, or the internet, or easily could have been in the 13 years I wasted in school.
But what you are saying is that a young child, who has no basic life skills, should just be able to leave school because it sucks.
Yes.
But the repercussions are that the rest of their life might suck and they’re not gonna blame themselves.
You don’t know. It is easy to point out harms to changing the current system while overlooking the harms in the current system and the missed opportunities. Maybe they would more aptly teach themselves- as I did. Or, maybe they would learn from an apprenticeship. Or, maybe they wanted to be a hair stylist, they learn to be a hair stylist, they become a hair stylist- and they are happy. A lot of the advocacy for mandatory education comes from projecting what you want, or what might be best for you, onto others- imo.
aquiring an education is a privilege
It is a privilege if it is voluntary, its an obligation if its forced.
If it seemed like a horrible experience, well it’s behind you.
But it still harms millions of others.
If not that, gratitude for the education your mother received, so that she could teach you to read.
My parents were also taught to read by their parents.
All I am saying is you should have a bit of gratitude for the education you received.
The only thing of any value I gained throughout schooling was the diploma.
I think the basics of what is taught in schools and truly necessary could be taught to most people in under 4 years.
Okay. If you have a kid, pull them out of school at 4th grade. They are ready for the world in your eyes.
13 years I wasted in school.
That’s your own fault. Drop out and get your GED at 16.
You mean getting paid and providing a service of value? I’d much prefer it.
Cool. Go to work. Nobody stopping you.
You want to change the system? You need more education. Substantiate your assertions that kids should drop out at 4th grade and go to work with quantitative research after you get your masters or PHD in early education pedagogy. Otherwise you’re just blowing hot air about the way the world ‘should be’
Okay. If you have a kid, pull them out of school at 4th grade. They are ready for the world in your eyes.
Most people includes adults who would learn it more easily. But I’d say yeah for the top 20% or so of students they’d learn more with free choice. They’d obviously still be minors so still have protections. But, I think an easier way to determine it than age is just letting people test out.
That’s your own fault. Drop out and get your GED at 16.
Illegal in the state I lived in, you had to be 18 to be out of any form of schooling. Furthermore at around that point COVID had started and online school largely amounted to nothing. And again furthermore, 2/13 isn’t that good of a recovery rate.
Cool. Go to work. Nobody stopping you.
I did work starting when I was 14, I would’ve been able to devote more and learn more from it if I weren’t in school.
You need more education.
You can learn outside of formal education. That is the only way I am able to learn anecdotally.
You want to change the system?
Many have already tried see John Taylor Gatto, one of the most decorated public school teachers ever. Or, Ivan Illich, who was more of a idealogue but still proposed good alternatives, some of which have partially been created. Or John Holt, or in some ways Caleb Gattegno. Bertrand Stern, and many more. And, I’m probably not the one best suited to take any of their places, but I can still advocate for change.
I think anyone at any age should be able to enroll in basic education. I think the basics of what is taught in schools and truly necessary could be taught to most people in under 4 years.
So… You think Kindergarten through 4th Grade is all that’s necessary in life?
I don’t know how to tell you this but… if you only got an education up to 4th grade you wouldn’t have the necessary communication skills to write that comment. You also probably wouldn’t have the necessary math skills to pay your bills or understand how interest works (so forget banking) which means you wouldn’t have a cell phone or Internet plan.
It’s not my place or your place to tell other people what’s best for them.
Actually, it is! It is our place to tell people what’s best for them because some things are objectively better and we can back up our positions with science. If you want to disagree with me that’s totally fine. Just know that by taking the opposite position here you’re arguing that it’s not our “place” to tell people things like:
Wash your hands after using the restroom.
Install smoke detectors in your home and replace the batteries when they beep (don’t just disable them).
Mixing chlorine and bleach can kill you.
Don’t drive like a maniac.
Get a science-backed education or you’re going to be useless/a drain on society.
Society has a duty to tell people things like this. Especially children! We have to teach them “what’s best for them” because that’s how society works (“we live in a society”).
When you say things like, “it’s not your place to tell other people what’s best for them” you’re basically making an argument that’s pro-disease at the very least and pro-death at worst.
When a cop pulls you over for driving like a maniac are you going to argue with them, “it’s not your place to tell me how to drive!”?
Progress marches on as we learn more about ourselves and the world. As our collective knowledge grows domains of knowledge become more specialized. So when a body of such specialists agree on something it is then their duty to tell us all “what’s best”.
And charter schools (at least by me) means “a business running the school for profit.” Yes, they get public funds, but they then pocket as much of those funds as possible in profits and give the students as little as possible.
They also will turn away special needs kids because those kids tend to require more dollars per student and thus aren’t as profitable to educate.
So the public schools are left with less money and more special needs kids per capita to take care of. The public schools fail more leading to more charter schools. Which leads to more public schools failing. Repeat as businesses profit and kids suffer.
A lot of charter schools are non-profit. But yeah there are plenty that are also for-profit.
They also will turn away special needs kids because those kids tend to require more dollars per student and thus aren’t as profitable to educate.
I saw a lot of accusations of that, but at least for the one most accused of that in New York- they base admissions on a lottery. Although, some students really can’t be in a normal school safely or effectively.
So the public schools are left with less money and more special needs kids per capita to take care of. The public schools fail more leading to more charter schools. Which leads to more public schools failing. Repeat as businesses profit and kids suffer.
The thing is public schools have had increasing funds, I went to public schools with a good amount of funds and it didn’t really in my experience change anything for the better. But, I think the best way to save money is allowing students to opt-out if they don’t want to take certain classes- or go to school at all.
I saw a lot of accusations of that, but at least for the one most accused of that in New York- they base admissions on a lottery. Although, some students really can’t be in a normal school safely or effectively.
Whether you know schools that do it or not, the fact is that they have the right to not allow special needs kids to go to their school. And that would be true if all schools were private. You would just have to hope your area had a school that would take your child if they have special needs or move to somewhere that does. That’s not right.
There are a lot of things you have claimed about your district which doesn’t fit any other district I’ve heard of. Maybe the problem is not public schools, maybe the problem is the way people run them where you live.
I have never heard of a public school that doesn’t have special education.
Okay, we aren’t talking about “severely mentally ill students” (which, as far as I know, public schools are still required to take), we’re talking about any and all special needs students, which charter schools can turn away.
And I haven’t told any anecdotes about charter schools. I am talking about what all charter schools have the right to do, but, as far as I have ever heard with the apparent exception of your district, public schools have to take all children regardless of their level of educational aptitude.
Private in this context means charter, which is still state funded. Furthermore with more market share there would be enough demand for affordable private schools, as seen in India where government schools are infamous.
I mean, there have been examples of government funded vouchers ending up going to scam charter schools because Republicans are also deregulating private schools. There are lots of horror stories about charter schools.
I’m sure there are, personally I prefer decentralized schooling and ending mandatory schooling. My experience in public school was terrible for me, by far the worst experiences of my life.
“I personally prefer the united states become an uneducated backwater because I didn’t like public school”
I simplified it for you.
Stop strawmanning what I said, it’s not a discussion or argument- it’s just insulting. And, no, saying people shouldn’t be forced to do unpaid labor for 13 years of their lives forced to sit in desks when their body is built to move and learning things that honestly are not, and will not be useful for the vast majority of them. If it were about basic knowledge there would just be one test and when you pass it you don’t have to go to school anymore. But it’s not.
I’m not saying people shouldn’t have the choice, I do support the choice. I just don’t support false imprisonment
Wow, you’re actually insane.
Edit: also it sounds to me like you straight up don’t understand the point of education.
What do I misunderstand about the point of education? Also you’re just insulting again.
I was going to give you a real answer but I took a little trip through your history and I think I understand what you’re saying now, this conversation is over.
Oh sweet Jesus you weren’t kidding.
Have a good evening!
In America it’s called the GED. I know this because a friend of mine took it at 15 and started community college immediately.
In my state you still have to be enrolled in some form of education until you are 18. My dad did the same.
Cool, have fun trying to compete economically with China and Europe with optional education in math and science. Your idea sounds nice in theory, but it’s completely divorced from reality.
I’m not a nationalist. I don’t see a need to compete economically on a national level. International markets aren’t zero sum.
Can you read this? Thank your elementary school teacher for their effort.
My parents taught me to read. In elementary school my teachers told me I wasn’t allowed to ask questions.
May I ask, Did all your teachers do this, or one in specific? Did your teachers refuse to teach you to read and the burden of literacy was solely on your parents?
In elementary school it was roughly half or more of them. There were a couple good(from my perspective obviously) teachers at that school, but it might have been below average.
I imagine they would have, but most people in my classes learned from their parents.
You’re personal life aside, cause I understand middle/high school is the worst, what do you mean by “decentralized schooling” and what does that mean in your view? Is it curriculum or who “runs” the building?
I think there should not be a centralized curriculum and instead schools can choose to teach different things and students choose what schools they go to(which is partially how it worked in my city). Also, it would be great if students could choose to enroll in classes that they thought were interesting and useful to them- and not enroll in others. But, the most fundamental thing, if you think schooling is about basic education than you should just be able to test out of it. My mom and grandma are both public school teachers, and both have agreed with me that the top performing academically in 9th grade know more of the curriculum than the bottom 20% of 12th grade graduates.
Also, the worst for me was actually elementary school.
As a public school teacher, from the bottom of my heart, fuck you!
Also, please follow rule 3 and rule 6.
My mom and grandma are both public school teachers. I had a few good public school teachers throughout my education. One of my good friends is a public school teacher. I never said people working in public schools were evil. I said it is immoral to trap students there against their will.
Charter schools are hell for educators and students don’t benefit. The reason why conservatives push for charter schools is because then they don’t have to worry about the separation of church and state. Basically they want public schools, but with Christian nationalism. This means they’d strip schools of scientific rigor, tell us Teachers to teach that God made the heavens and earth a couple thousand years ago, people rode dinosaurs like cowboys, and we’re all either going to heaven or hell. I have parents who push for this already. Their agenda is more of the same, anti intellectual, Christian nationalism.
Charter schools are not a monolithic entity, I’m sure some are terrible- but I’ve also seen some that seem to be good, obviously I’ve never been enrolled in one but at least in the public school district I went to it was terrible for a lot of teachers- and harmful to my education and mental health.
There are a lot of non-religious charter schools, I am not a fan of religious schools- but it is not my place to impose my beliefs on other people’s children.
Do you think people should be able to homeschool or pay for their children to go to a private school?
No reason to speculate. Charter schools have been studied extensively:
https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/pubs/20104029/
To summarize the conclusions of the study:
This suggests that there’s really no advantage to charter schools unless you’re using them as a means to limit class sizes in big cities (which is where that measured effect of improved scores for Black and Latino students comes from). In other words, 30+ years of studying charter schools has once again proved that the biggest factor in improving test scores is smaller class sizes. Every other factor from curriculum to “good teachers VS bad teachers” to teaching styles to how many hours kids spend in classrooms is all nothing in comparison.
Having said that, charter schools have some major statistical advantages over regular (funded via socialism) schools:
…but forget all that for a moment: The fact that even after 30+ years of evolution charter schools still aren’t outperforming regular schools indicates that they’re a waste of time. If we actually wanted to improve education in this country there’s a few simple changes we can make that would have vastly more impact than charter schools:
That’s it! Do those two things and the science says our kids will be better educated. Everything else is just shifting the deck chairs around or just wishful thinking (“let’s make all teachers great teachers!”).
BTW: If we want teaching (as a profession) to improve over time we should probably start by paying them more and making it a more stable career. You know, to keep them around instead of having them get so dissatisfied that the majority leave the profession after a few years. Other things like not passing idiotic “Don’t say Gay” laws would also help in this regards.
If you went to a charter school they’re just gonna let you go wandering around willy nilly?
I’ve been a teacher in various countries around the world. Some, mainly third world countries, do just let kids go do whatever if they don’t want to learn. These kids usually end up pumping gas, working a cash register, or some other low skill low wage job.
No of course not. I think both public and charter schools should allow it however.
It’s not my place or your place to tell other people what’s best for them. They should have the right to choose to do what they want. There is nothing demeaning about working in a low skill or low wage job obviously it is a bad situation if the wage is too low- but it isn’t always. One of the jobs I’ve had that I enjoyed the most was delivery, my other jobs have been “skilled”.
Wait you are telling me that, at the age of 7 you were ready to make decisions that affect your entire life? If sitting at a desk for 10 years and learning basic life skills for free is abuse and gave you PTSD… As you said… Just how would you feel sitting at a gas station for 40 years, inhaling carcinogen fumes, and living at a very basic level as a result of the decisions you made as a young child? You basically had a bad experience, and I understand. I hated school as well. It’s actually why I became a teacher. I don’t want to be an abusive dick like my teachers were. But what you are saying is that a young child, who has no basic life skills, should just be able to leave school because it sucks. But the repercussions are that the rest of their life might suck and they’re not gonna blame themselves. They’re going to blame circumstances. In all honesty, aquiring an education is a privilege, and it is a recent development in society that we universally get a basic education. If it seemed like a horrible experience, well it’s behind you. All I am saying is you should have a bit of gratitude for the education you received. If not that, gratitude for the education your mother received, so that she could teach you to read. You seem very intelligent, but you’d not be able to use your intelligence if you didn’t have basic literacy… And consider if your mother, herself, was illiterate and couldn’t teach you. Wouldn’t school be such a gift?
I think anyone at any age should be able to enroll in basic education. I think the basics of what is taught in schools and truly necessary could be taught to most people in under 4 years.
I didn’t say PTSD.
That is a tiny fraction of what public education is.
You mean getting paid and providing a service of value? I’d much prefer it.
I personally would’ve been much better off not engaging in schooling at all. Everything that has been useful to me I either was taught by my parents, or the internet, or easily could have been in the 13 years I wasted in school.
Yes.
You don’t know. It is easy to point out harms to changing the current system while overlooking the harms in the current system and the missed opportunities. Maybe they would more aptly teach themselves- as I did. Or, maybe they would learn from an apprenticeship. Or, maybe they wanted to be a hair stylist, they learn to be a hair stylist, they become a hair stylist- and they are happy. A lot of the advocacy for mandatory education comes from projecting what you want, or what might be best for you, onto others- imo.
It is a privilege if it is voluntary, its an obligation if its forced.
But it still harms millions of others.
My parents were also taught to read by their parents.
The only thing of any value I gained throughout schooling was the diploma.
Okay. If you have a kid, pull them out of school at 4th grade. They are ready for the world in your eyes.
That’s your own fault. Drop out and get your GED at 16.
Cool. Go to work. Nobody stopping you.
You want to change the system? You need more education. Substantiate your assertions that kids should drop out at 4th grade and go to work with quantitative research after you get your masters or PHD in early education pedagogy. Otherwise you’re just blowing hot air about the way the world ‘should be’
Most people includes adults who would learn it more easily. But I’d say yeah for the top 20% or so of students they’d learn more with free choice. They’d obviously still be minors so still have protections. But, I think an easier way to determine it than age is just letting people test out.
Illegal in the state I lived in, you had to be 18 to be out of any form of schooling. Furthermore at around that point COVID had started and online school largely amounted to nothing. And again furthermore, 2/13 isn’t that good of a recovery rate.
I did work starting when I was 14, I would’ve been able to devote more and learn more from it if I weren’t in school.
You can learn outside of formal education. That is the only way I am able to learn anecdotally.
Many have already tried see John Taylor Gatto, one of the most decorated public school teachers ever. Or, Ivan Illich, who was more of a idealogue but still proposed good alternatives, some of which have partially been created. Or John Holt, or in some ways Caleb Gattegno. Bertrand Stern, and many more. And, I’m probably not the one best suited to take any of their places, but I can still advocate for change.
So… You think Kindergarten through 4th Grade is all that’s necessary in life?
I don’t know how to tell you this but… if you only got an education up to 4th grade you wouldn’t have the necessary communication skills to write that comment. You also probably wouldn’t have the necessary math skills to pay your bills or understand how interest works (so forget banking) which means you wouldn’t have a cell phone or Internet plan.
Actually, it is! It is our place to tell people what’s best for them because some things are objectively better and we can back up our positions with science. If you want to disagree with me that’s totally fine. Just know that by taking the opposite position here you’re arguing that it’s not our “place” to tell people things like:
Society has a duty to tell people things like this. Especially children! We have to teach them “what’s best for them” because that’s how society works (“we live in a society”).
When you say things like, “it’s not your place to tell other people what’s best for them” you’re basically making an argument that’s pro-disease at the very least and pro-death at worst.
When a cop pulls you over for driving like a maniac are you going to argue with them, “it’s not your place to tell me how to drive!”?
Progress marches on as we learn more about ourselves and the world. As our collective knowledge grows domains of knowledge become more specialized. So when a body of such specialists agree on something it is then their duty to tell us all “what’s best”.
And charter schools (at least by me) means “a business running the school for profit.” Yes, they get public funds, but they then pocket as much of those funds as possible in profits and give the students as little as possible.
They also will turn away special needs kids because those kids tend to require more dollars per student and thus aren’t as profitable to educate.
So the public schools are left with less money and more special needs kids per capita to take care of. The public schools fail more leading to more charter schools. Which leads to more public schools failing. Repeat as businesses profit and kids suffer.
A lot of charter schools are non-profit. But yeah there are plenty that are also for-profit.
I saw a lot of accusations of that, but at least for the one most accused of that in New York- they base admissions on a lottery. Although, some students really can’t be in a normal school safely or effectively.
The thing is public schools have had increasing funds, I went to public schools with a good amount of funds and it didn’t really in my experience change anything for the better. But, I think the best way to save money is allowing students to opt-out if they don’t want to take certain classes- or go to school at all.
Whether you know schools that do it or not, the fact is that they have the right to not allow special needs kids to go to their school. And that would be true if all schools were private. You would just have to hope your area had a school that would take your child if they have special needs or move to somewhere that does. That’s not right.
As do public schools at least in my district, the severely handicapped students are put specifically in schools for special needs.
I didn’t say all should be private.
I think it would be pretty easy in a charter system to offer incentives for taking special needs students.
There are a lot of things you have claimed about your district which doesn’t fit any other district I’ve heard of. Maybe the problem is not public schools, maybe the problem is the way people run them where you live.
I have never heard of a public school that doesn’t have special education.
I didn’t say that?
I said that severely mentally ill students were put into separate schools.
Well the exact same thing could be said about any anecdote about charter schools.
Okay, we aren’t talking about “severely mentally ill students” (which, as far as I know, public schools are still required to take), we’re talking about any and all special needs students, which charter schools can turn away.
And I haven’t told any anecdotes about charter schools. I am talking about what all charter schools have the right to do, but, as far as I have ever heard with the apparent exception of your district, public schools have to take all children regardless of their level of educational aptitude.
Do you have any source for individual public schools(not a district) being able to turn away special needs students?
Again a district yes, an individual school no.