Arbitration clauses must be made illegal
They are in the rest of the first world countries.
Or at least reasonable.
It’s perfectly reasonable for, say, a tattoo artist not to be liable for the medical bills, if the ink causes a hitherto unknown allergy to kick in.
It’s not reasonable to argue that a streaming service agreement covers liability for being cut in half by a train.
There has to be a reasonable understanding of the underlying risks that are covered. Some things are just inherently risky, and if the buyer knows and understands that, she can agree on taking that risk. Otherwise, no doctor would ever touch any patient ever again.
Arbitration is never the right answer. Fix the judicial system, don’t privatize it.
You need to reform lawsuits at the same time. The US legal system allows lawyers to take cases on contingency, getting paid only if they win. In most other countries this isn’t allowed. In addition, in most other countries it’s much easier for the winner of the lawsuit to recover the legal costs of the lawsuit from the loser.
The result of this is that the US has a lot more nuisance and extremely speculative lawsuits. Under those conditions, a binding arbitration setup is more reasonable. It means that neither side is spending tons of money on lawyers. If you reform the legal system so that only people who stand a decent chance of winning are willing to sue, then definitely get rid of binding arbitration.
Make sure to pirate all Disney media instead of consuming it legally so that you can sue them if they try to kill you.
That’s what I don’t get about this. The point is either to get out of paying or at least make it very difficult. At the same time the cost to Disney as a company with all the bad press and fall out from doing this would be orders of magnitude greater than simply paying the widower compensation. Who signed off on it? The idea that a lawyer can do what ever it takes to win a case while simultaneously destroying the company they work for seems dumb as shit from a purely financial point of view.
deleted by creator
Just pirate that shit
For many parents, it’s quicker to pay $10 for Disney+ than to load up a torrenting site and download the torrents every time. As a former piece of shit bratty toddler, I can understand why many parents would rather pay.
Is there any good magnet urls to Disney’s whole collection?
Google this hash info: EF4211584F37CA70A4B1A2E47E7E833C79ABACBA
Jesus… You’re not wrong. That’s fucking crazy. You’re NOT wrong. Wtf is wrong with my country?
Would that break the ToS if I had a trial previously?
Yes and Disney will get very mad 😠😠
Think of the shareholders!!
Disney allowed to kill your spouse because you watched the mandalorian
Not the worse trade off. As long as we aren’t including Season 3.
The dark arts of the mouse are a pathway to legal techniques some consider to be… unnatural.
People don’t realize how important the outcome of this court case will be.
Man, america is wild place. Do you have any laws there?
deleted by creator
And laws that do protect the little guys get ignored by our right-wing courts. For instance, the courts quit enforcing the Sherman Antitrust Act because, in the words of Scalia, “it makes no economic sense.”
Only the ones that are written for and protected by corporations. Everything else is the wild Wild West.
Most Americans would be offended by your comment, and that’s why we don’t have nice things. We’re very, and I can not stress this enough, VERY stupid.
It’s the law that the businesses get to screw you.
Oh yeah and every infant is assigned an assault weapon at birth.
Oh yeah and every infant is assigned an assault weapon at birth.
Man, here voenkom has to find you and give you povestka to assign you assault rifle.
It’s gonna be nuts.
It’s certainly going to cause a reaction.
It will likely be dismissed as Disney wasn’t the company responsible for staffing or managing the restaurant.
Which sucks, because I desperately want to see Disney take another massive L in the spotlight of the mainstream news cycle.
Piracy is the safe option then. Got it.
Piracy, watching through a friend, BluRays & DVDs, hard copies & actually owning something as opposed to…perpetually renting access, owning nothing & being happy about it.
How can a streaming service agreement apply to a restaurant
in a park?Wasn’t even in a park. The restaurant is in a separate mall. No ticket needed.
A mall owned and operated by Disney, with Disney branding everywhere, and store names heavily influenced by Disney properties, like “BB Wolf’s Sausage Co.”, and where “Guest Services” is managed by Disney, and the property rules are Disneyworld’s property rules.
That has nothing to do with whether it was actually in a park though, in which case one could argue about accepting terms based on a park ticket purchase. Since it’s not in a park, and needs no ticket, that shouldn’t apply.
Also, since you want to talk about branding, Raglan Road is a very well known street in Dublin, Ireland. It’s not really Disney-related, just Irish. Heck, looking into it a tiny bit more, the pub seems like it might even be independently owned and operated, not actually owned or operated by Disney at all. Their website doesn’t even mention Disney anywhere on it that I can find, which would lead one to assume it’s not actually Disney- related. It just happens to be located in a space operated by Disney. In which case I don’t think Disney would be liable at all anyway for an independent business, which seems a bit confusing why their lawyers wouldn’t just go that route instead, unless part of the agreement to be there is to be covered by Disney’s legal team.
If it is under the Disney umbrella, I’d bet that Disney World, Disney Springs, the Raglan Road Irish Pub, and Disney+ are all legally separate companies. They may be wholly owned by the Walt Disney Company under their umbrella, but technically separate companies. Legally, this matters a lot, even if it’s all under the Disney brand. Even if we don’t really care about that distinction as consumers.
If it is under the Disney umbrella, I’d bet that Disney World, Disney Springs, the Raglan Road Irish Pub, and Disney+ are all legally separate companies.
Probably, but is a customer expected to know that? What if you’re inside Disney World itself and you’re injured on the It’s a Small World ride, and then Disney says “oh, that’s not us, that’s owned and operated by ‘It’s A Small World LLC’”.
Part of the attraction of the whole Disney Springs area is that it’s under the Disney umbrella. As a visitor, you know that the company is going to keep everything clean, make sure that everything is up to high standards, etc. You’re probably going to pay a bit more to go to a store / restaurant there than a typical strip mall, but in exchange you get part of the Disney experience. It’s pretty reasonable to assume that that will also include restaurants that produce high quality food and that ensure that someone’s allergy needs are met.
FWIW, I don’t think the judge is going to go for it. Disney’s lawyers are the most bloodthirsty son of a bitch lawyers on Earth, but just because they make the argument doesn’t mean the court will accept it.
This is why those ToS are 71pages long. I don’t think there are many good judges out there anymore, but I hope the one that reviews this case goes absolutely ape-shit on Disney. There is a legal tradition of harsh punishments for criminals in examplar cases to set detterents to future crimes. The same needs to be done to reel in these corporations.
It probably won’t.
Disney said late Wednesday that it is “deeply saddened” by the family’s loss but stressed the Irish pub is neither owned nor operated by the company. The company’s stance in the litigation doesn’t affect the plaintiff’s claims against the eatery, it added.
“We are merely defending ourselves against the plaintiff’s attorney’s attempt to include us in their lawsuit against the restaurant,” the company wrote in an emailed statement.
For some reason that word “merely” just gets right under my skin. Like they KNOW it’s peak slimy, but they are just trying to do their job, man.
…Which is to protect the company at the expense of anything else: Reason, decency, consumer rights…
Honestly, isn’t them invoking the arbitration clause a direct admission of guilt? Had they just came to court and said “we have nothing to do with it” they might’ve just gotten away with it. Like this, they literally drag themselves into the suit and say you can’t sue me. Not a good look.
The way these big firms work is they make a bunch of almost contradictory arguments and you have to show they’re all false in order to win the law suit.
So it’ll look like:
- I didn’t do it.
- Even if I did do it you can’t prove it was me.
- Even if you can prove it was me I wouldn’t be liable.
- Even if I was liable this has to be settled by arbitration.
So you have to get through arguments 4 and 3 first, to show that it’s worth the court trying to find out what happened. Then they’ll fight you tooth and nail on points 1 and 2 later.
No, it isn’t. It’s saying, look, we had nothing to do with this because it was outside of our reasonable control, and even if we were somehow in control of this independent entity, this is the wrong venue because they agreed to this arbitration clause.
Moreover, per another article on NPR, “Disney says Piccolo agreed to similar language again when purchasing park tickets online in September 2023. Whether he actually read the fine print at any point, it adds, is “immaterial.”” In other words, he agreed to arbitration when he bought the ticket to Disney World, and it was while at the park, at an independent restaurant, that Ms. Tangsuan had a fatal allergic reaction.
Is that arbitration agreement reasonable? Personally, I lean towards no, but that’s mostly because arbitration is almost always in favor of the corporation. If it was truly a neutral process? Then yeah, I’d mostly support it, because it’s pretty easy for a defendant like Disney to bury any single plaintiff. (OTOH, it makes class action suits much harder.) Is it even valid, since it’s the estate that’s suing Disney, rather than her husband, and the estate didn’t exist when the tickets were bought and so couldn’t have agreed to the terms? Hard to say.
Yeah. “I didn’t kill her. But even if I did, here’s my get out of jail free card.”
The problem is just going to court and saying “we have nothing to do with it” is both expensive and can end up with them going to trial. If they believe they have nothing to do with the incident, this is their easiest route.
Not trying to defend a big corp like Disney (they have plenty of money and can easily cover it), but I was just involved in a suite brought against me and in the end even though it would have been an “easy win” for us, it still would have cost us more money to fight it out in court than it was to just settle. And that’s assuming the trial went our way which is never a guarantee.
I sincerely hope this shit blows up. May corporations providing “free” services forever be associated with literal devil’s contacts. Piracy is no longer just about sticking it to the man, it’s about freedom!
It would cost Disney literally pocket change to compensate the widower, but instead they rather spend hundred of thousands of dollars for lawyers and legal fee to fight it.
Not to mention how abhorrent it makes the “family” company look.
It also sends a message that if you ever use a Disney product then they’ll use that as an excuse to deny you your legal rights.
They’re using this chance since they know they can easily dispute it to try and set precedent for terms and services being used in situations that don’t make sense.
The judge will probably slap it down and they can still say that they don’t have anything to do with the restaurant and just walk away free, but it’s worth trying cause there’s plenty pro corpo judges now a days.
Did you mean “pocket changes” like “yay new pockets” or “pocket change” like “a little money”?
You said “literally” so I’m thinking they’re paying in linen swatches.
You probably think you’re clever but being pedantic is just being insufferable about stuff everyone else understood from context. That doesn’t make you clever, that just shows everyone that you need to be seen as clever.
You’re getting downvotes, but I for one applaud your manic pedantry!
It’s not pocket change to kill a doctor, quite the opposite. They earn very well, she will be very well compensated.
You know how much Disney is worth or their annual profit?
Even something like 10 millions is just cost of business or a rounding error to Disney.
10mill settlement. Yeah nah. add zeros.
Give me one example, in the entire history of mankind, a settlement for 1 live loss worth 100mil or more.
Idk what perfect world you came from, but in this fucked up world we’re living in, a human life ain’t cost that much.
Every single life insurance contract for a doctor
Meanwhile, even though D+ wants to apply their TOS to the theme parks, if you buy a D+ gift card, those funds cannot be used at any of the theme parks lol.
I can’t believe this is even a fucking thing
There’s no way this gets dismissed, right? The precedent this would set would be unimaginable…
I dunno, it depends on how many supreme court justices disney can afford I guess.
deleted by creator
You really think Disney has a monopoly on evil?
deleted by creator
I’m a bit confused here; what have they got a monopoly on?
A monopoly is a business with no viable competitors. But Disney has at least one or two competitors in pretty much everything they do.
So does Google, but it’s still a monopoly due to how they prevent smaller competitors from challenging the status quo.
Technically they have a monopoly on all their intellectual property (characters, star wars, marvel, pixar etc.)
But every company has a “monopoly on their intellectual property.” That’s just how that works and has nothing to do with being a monopoly.
As I said, technically a monopoly.
Fox + ABC is pretty big, but I don’t see Disney being the same as a Google or Microsoft monopoly.
Please. You are correct but you need to be informed and eloquent about it. Google “enjoys an 89.2% share of the market for general search services, which increases to 94.9% on mobile devices,” according to the most recent judge to rule against them (it was a 270 page ruling so I can’t blame you for not reading it).
Intellectual property rights do not a monopoly make. Unfair practices (like requiring webpages to conform to a new standard like google amp or not get boosted in search) make the monopoly.
I really hope a politician bans those “Class Action Waiver” and “Revoking Right to Arbitration” riders that are getting put into everyone’s Term and Conditions contracts. We should have the right to band together if a corporation fucks us over and this is ridiculous.
The way to handle the class action waiver is for all the would-be class action lawsuit plaintiffs to file individual lawsuits. Companies will realize pretty quickly why they do, in fact, want to only have one lawsuit to contend with instead of several thousand or million.
Not everyone has funds for a lawyer or time to get it done. Sueing someone in this country is complicated and expensive
Theoretically, everyone’s supposed to have right to self-representation. If some enterprising individual helps them to forego their need for a lawyer, and gives lengthy instructions on all the right forms, even if only 40% of the participants do it correctly, it could be a big hassle for them.
Of course, the other issue is that it would be a big hassle for the courts.
I’m aware how inaccessible civil court is for many people. While not addressing the time aspect, plenty of lawyers will work on contingency. Hurting a companies bottom line is what they understand the most.
Now THAT is bad PR. Wow. Going to be hard to top it.
The thing has been popping up in newspapers all over the World.
It’s bad PR for Disney and outside the US, it’s bad PR for the US also.
It’s hard to believe that they decided to take their stand on a case destined to be as high profile as this one. What a monumental misstep. But I hope they stick to their guns now, and that precident is set that stops this practice dead in its tracks.
Well, if they don’t do it now it sets a precedent that you can sue them. They don’t want that happening.
Not precident in the legal sense, but you’re right - if they back off of this defense and agree to take it to court, they’ll be fielding way more of these potentially because there will be blood in the water.
As a person who owns Disney stocks, I would just like to say:
Pay up, bitches!
Have you considered stopping?
Or shorting it, when I expect it to go down in price, thereby getting more money out of them.
I know this isn’t the point at all, but it must suck to be the chef in charge of that kitchen right now. Like you’ve already made a mistake that’s killed a doctor and now it’s become massive international news…Yikes!
Yknow what else sucks? Dying.
Also I wonder if the staff could be charged with involuntary manslaughter
Lets focus our contempt in the correct direction. You have no idea if the wait staff even interacts with the kitchen let alone if they were trained properly, or trained wrong.
Well that’s the entire thing, they weren’t properly trained on allergens and how to deal with them. The couple asked, asked again, and when the food came out, asked a third time because it wasn’t marked allergen free.
This lands square at the feet of Disney because this, undoubtedly, was a measure of cost-cutting. Disney is notorious for this type of behavior in recent years. As with any capitalist enterprise, the con goes: over-deliver and build up a rep, deliver on that rep to a T, nothing more nothing less, and then the coup de grâce. Cash in on that goodwill by abusing, tightening purse strings, sacrificing customer satisfaction and often safety.
The question we’re all gonna find out the answer to in the coming years is how much goodwill does Disney have, exactly. How long can they milk their customers, turning them away from future visits by making their park and product experiences so expensive while being underwhelming that people go into debt to experience them, and so abusive of the customer/vendor relationship that people leave with a bad taste in their mouth.
I’m hoping to watch the entire edifice fucking crumble and burn.
I’m not defending Disney and I cannot speak to this situation. My experience at the restaurants in Disney Springs was very good with respect to allergens. When we inquired if a meal could be made without certain ingredients for allergy reasons, the wait staff left and found experienced staff to assist us. At one of the restaurants, the chef came out clarified the ingredients in the meal we inquired about, clarified which ingredients were a problem, and they verified (without prompting) the ingredients we asked be omitted had been omitted when the meals came out. We were quite satisfied with our experience. We had been avoiding nearly all restaurants up until that point and felt some relief with how it turned out.
Don’t worry, capitalism is the death kneel of humanity. Global warming will end our species as a byproduct of a few thousand people living like gods.
Dunno how it is there but where I live you can’t be charged for a legitimate fuck up at work like that. Only if it was malicious
In plenty of places, if you work with food and handle allergens then either you need to flag very visibly that you can’t guarantee separation of allergens, or you can be on the hook for accidents too.
Your job is to serve food. If your food was bad and you said is wasn’t, that’s negligent. Ignorance isn’t a defense when it’s your job.