• Empricorn@feddit.nl
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    1 year ago

    Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Bad is the enemy of good, and right-wingers are bad.

    • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Biden doubled Trump’s deportation numbers and gave record breaking funding to corrupt police departments all over the country, also striped one of the largest unions in the country of its right to strike, something Republicans haven’t managed to do since the Traffic Controller firings in the 80s

      Yeah keep telling me about the “bad guys” wonder-who-thats-for

      https://mronline.org/2022/01/21/the-700000-club/

      https://theintercept.com/2021/09/20/biden-haiti-deportations-texas-del-rio/

      https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-17/biden-administration-appeals-judge-order-to-stop-expelling-migrants-under-public-health-law

      So easy to find these sources, but as you can see below me, libs don’t know how to read basic statistics

      • abraxas@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Biden doubled Trump’s deportation numbers

        2021 was the lowest deportation year on record (owing to COVID). 2022 was the second lowest deportation year in modern record.

        Biden moved to prioritize ICE focusing on criminal immigrants, and the Texas Republicans blocked that behavior in the courts, a block that only failed in June of 2023 when SCOTUS gave the only reasonable result (a phrase I can’t say very often anymore).

        So 2 years of record low deportations and 1 year of his hands tied in the courts (of which I can’t find numbers anyway). How exactly is he “doubling” Trump’s deportation numbers?

        What you MIGHT have misunderstood is that the number of border crossings have gone up dramatically under Biden, likely because he’s against the draconian and horrific policies of his predecessor. More border crossings than ever. Fewer deportations than ever. Whatever your opinion is of that, your claim was wrong.

        And I’m pretty sure it would be turn into a shitfest if I tried to discuss the rest of the issues because I know you see them with Marx colored glasses. But you’re making some factually incorrect statements and it can’t be more clear than the deportation numbers. And more refs.

        https://www.axios.com/2022/03/11/ice-arrest-deportation-number-biden-immigration

        https://www.cato.org/blog/biden-administration-has-reduced-deportations-more-trump-administration-not-much-0 (I love the “not by much” when they show a graph depicting an 80% drop! I love propaganda mags)

        • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          Try again, you’re simply counting arrests and deportations, I’m talking about Title 42 which was also Trump’s primary deportation method

          “Given the grave harm that the Title 42 policy inflicts on desperate, asylum-seeking families, and the public health community’s view that the policy is not necessary, we would have hoped the administration would simply accept the ruling, especially given its repeated claim that it wants to distance itself from the Trump administration’s asylum practices,” said Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s immigrant rights project.

          Customs and Border Protection said 25% of the 209,000 people it encountered in August had been stopped at least once over the previous year, compared with 14% in earlier years.

          Hmmm funny how numbers change when you account for all avenues of abuse

          What you MIGHT have misunderstood is that the number of border crossings have gone up dramatically under Biden, likely because he’s against the draconian and horrific policies of his predecessor. More border crossings than ever. Fewer deportations than ever. Whatever your opinion is of that, your claim was wrong.

          Nope incorrect

          The “expedited removal” process is one where asylum seekers are quickly denied entry based on a brief interview process with Border Patrol officers who have the final say on whether a migrant has a “credible fear” of returning to their countries of origin. With “expedited removal,” migrants are deported without a hearing or appearance before a judge–in effect, without due process.

          During his four-year term, Trump used Title 42 to remove 500,000 asylum seekers. In under a year, Biden has deported almost 700,000 migrants.

          That was a year and half ago, and before the Biden admin intensified the deportations of Haitians especially

          the weekend show U.S. Border Patrol agents on horseback violently grabbing Haitian migrants attempting to join the Del Rio encampment. This, the Biden administration claims, is in the name of safety: The mass deportations have been authorized under the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Title 42, which enables expedited deportations in the name of public health during the Covid-19 pandemic. Under Trump, nearly half a million people were removed under the law; the Biden administration has already used it to deport nearly 700,000.

          Its use against migrants at the southern border sends a clear and vile message as to whom the U.S. deems to be the public, deserving of health and safety. Under Title 42 — in the name of safety, that is — those being rounded up and flown to Haiti were given no option to apply for asylum or temporary protection status.

          It is worth emphasizing, too, that the majority of deportees have not lived in Haiti for many years, having left to find work in South America after a catastrophic hurricane devastated their home country in 2010. Struggling to find enough work to survive in South America, thousands risked perilous journeys to the U.S. border, only to be summarily removed — to Haiti.

          Next time before you put on the lib tinted glasses, don’t just look for sources that only count ONE method of deportation and immigrant abuse, count them all, also you used Cato.org, straight up a right wing source lmao

        • autismdragon [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          And I’m pretty sure it would be turn into a shitfest if I tried to discuss the rest of the issues because I know you see them with Marx colored glasses.

          Honestly this bit makes me extremally curious what your response to the other two issues are. Do you think they’re both good things? I just want to know what I’m dealing with here.

          • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            He didn’t even know about Title 42 and its use by the biden admin to deport twice as many people as Trump, I doubt he has informed opinions on police funding and strike breaking lmao

            • abraxas@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              And this circlejerk is why I block hexbear on the apps I have that allow me to. There is no point in continuing conversation at this point. I’m less than human to you and yours.

              • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                ??? You literally didn’t know what Title 42 was, and you were spreading poorly researched misinformation about an important issue, also “less than human to you” ??? bro we’re debating on an Internet forum chill out

              • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                I’m less than human to you and yours.

                Dude, you’re commenting on a thread about the liberal tendency to write off communist human beings as literal robots, the irony of you being so bad at taking corrections that you immediately jumping weepily onto the cross and play the victim just to avoid having to type out “damn, I didnt know that” is powerful and embarassing.

                • abraxas@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Dude, I was commenting on specific fabrications someone was spreading, and out came all the responders to tell me how ignorant I am because I disagree with them. I’m not a liberal who writes off communists. Neither “a liberal” nor “write off communist”.

                  Do you believe it is possible for a person to be a communist and also spread something that is not 100% honest truth? Do you all take the Three Oaths?

                  Sorry, but no. Nice comic, if only it were accurate. You drew yourself with a chad face, so I lose.

                  Look, nothing personal, but you can still treat someone like shit just because other people treat you like shit.

                  • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    Dude, I was commenting on specific fabrications someone was spreading

                    Like someone else said, it’s incredible, you got proven wrong to your face, in public, and didn’t even blink. Just erased the interaction from your memory to preserve what is evidently a load-bearing smugness on your part. You’re like a terminator tbh, if you simply acquired a more factual worldview to argue from you’d be a posting juggernaut.

                    Look, nothing personal

                    Oh my bad nevermind. Great bit, carry onstalin-approval

              • ebenixo@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                You should block all instances where your bullshit is called out and you have nothing left you can parrot back at them

                • abraxas@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  That’s funny. I hear people lying and want to avoid turning this into reddit 2.0, and you think this is about people calling out my bullshit.

                  You know what happens if you call out a lie and 100 zealots claim it’s “bullshit”? You still have a fucking lie. Apparently, if I don’t think every single American is literally as bad as Trump, I’m a fucking moron.

                  Well, working on “having nothing left” by blocking you.

          • abraxas@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Not sure why I’m stupid enough to reply.

            WRT police, the budgeting is not unprecedented. I, too, support defunding police, but as far as all the metrics I’ve seen, nothing about Biden’s budget effect on police funding is out of the ordinary.

            WRT the Union stuff, it’s complicated. He used a law meant to protect the country for the way it was indended, and empowered 8 of 12 unions to sign a deal they agreed to. There has never been any evidence of overt or covert threat of actually arresting members of the other 4 unions if they did strike. You might disagree with that, but it was a bold faced lie to say he “(sic) striped one of the largest unions in the country of its right to strike, something Republicans haven’t managed to do since the Traffic Controller firings in the 80s”

            You get to decide whether someone on your side lying is better or worse than someone who is merely far-left non-communist calling bullshit what it is. There is exactly one way to guarantee never having my vote, and it’s lying.

            • GreenTeaRedFlag [any]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              There is exactly one way to guarantee never having my vote, and it’s lying.

              Do you…do you actually think we intend to vote communism in?

              • abraxas@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Then why all the lies and standing by them?

                But no. I’ve been reminded hundreds of times that you intend to bring communism by putting guns to the heads of the majority of your fellow proles like myself who don’t want what you do. I know I’m going up against the wall, along with over 90% of my country, if you ever win.

                But that’s why I know you won’t win. You can’t execute 400M people, and you can’t turn their hearts by threatening to.

    • krolden@lemmy.mlOP
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      1 year ago

      If you always vote for the lesser of two evils, you end up with the worst evil imaginable.

      • Asafum@feddit.nl
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        1 year ago

        But we only ever have 2 evils. There is no “other” to choose. The old folks make sure of that during primaries, they vote and they choose people who look like them and are their age, so we always end up with the 2 worst choices.

          • Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            1 year ago

            The right loves anti-electoralism on the left, it means that they have less of a fight from the left.

            Can you imagine how bad things would be if people didn’t vote if they felt like they were picking between the lesser of 2 evils?

            This nation would look a whole hell of a lot like modern Florida with it’s politics because Republicans in general turn out way more often than anyone else to vote.

            • krolden@lemmy.mlOP
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              1 year ago

              Then why have things been getting so much worse over the past 50 years even with plenty of blue boys and gals getting put in office?

              • Lightor@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Ummm because nuance is a thing that exists. Global conditions, etc. I mean the guy in power during the pandemic saying we should inject bleach or nuke incoming hurricanes sure as shit helped things be worse.

              • Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                1 year ago

                What about the good that has happened?

                Do you think gay marriage would have been protected?

                Access to birth control secured?

                Anti-sodomy laws getting struck down?

                The Affordable Care Act passing?

                Disability rights?

                Do you think any of those things would have happened if Republicans been able to seize power and hold it unopposed over the last 50 years? No. None of those things would have happened. Those things happened because people further left than them got elected, the lesser of 2 evils won some elections.

                Don’t let perfect be the enemy of better.

                • GreenTeaRedFlag [any]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  disability rights were fought for by disabled people, not fucking democrats. Gay people rioted to get their rights.

                  and do you actually think contraceptives are secured?

                  • Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                    1 year ago

                    Do you think any of those things would have passed in a country where people didn’t vote?

                    And all those rights secured by supreme court rulings are sitting on shaky ground, why? Republicans stacking the courts.

              • AnarchoYeasty@beehaw.org
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                1 year ago

                Because Republicans? We’ve not had plenty of blues elected. We’ve seen abysmal showings from the left and republicans being elected across the nation who are setting out to destroy people’s rights.

            • SmokinStalin [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              The crux of the issue is, where you see a democracy that is keeping fascism at bay, we see through the illusion of choice that keeps allowing the slow steady march towards fascism.

              It’s a ratchet. Gop moves everything rightward (including the Dems) and the Dems refuse to push left in the name of “bipartisanship”. Then conditions get worse (because the policy is further right than before), Dems eventually lose because they allow gridlock and the ratchet suddenly frees up and cranks to the right again.

              • Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                1 year ago

                And how much worse would it be right now if Dems never won elections due to people saying “this dem isn’t far enough left therefore I won’t vote”?

                How far right would things have flown?

                Voting for the lesser of 2 evils reduces harm now. And when the lesser of 2 evils isn’t pushed that things are allowed to shift further to shit.

    • krolden@lemmy.mlOP
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      1 year ago

      If you always vote for the lesser of two evils, you end up with the worst evil imaginable.

      i accidentally deleted my comment ahhhhhhhhh sorry for double ping

      • Lightor@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Could you explain this?

        If I have a truly evil person, say a Hitler like figure. Then I have a guy who is kind of an idiot. How does voting for the slight idiot end up way worse than a guy who wants to commit genocide. The slight idiot becomes the worst evil imaginable, but how?