that’s not elitism, it’s a basic level of compassion toward those you don’t personally know and outrage at the apparent amorality of the people around you; they’re still young and will hopefully grow out of it (possibly with some help from you, but you have to prioritize your own mental health), but a steady diet of propaganda and relatively good material conditions tend to lead to this kind of attitude

“If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine.”
– smart Argentinian man

I noticed this as well, usually they reply with something along the lines of ‘Worlds gonna keep spinning, nothing you can do’. Usually I try to see how the system affects them negatively day-to-day (e.g job hate, student debt), then expand from there.

It’s a coping mechanism on their part.

At some level they know that if they engage with politics like you do, and acknowledge and learn the things you learn, they’ll end up like you. So they don’t. They protect the narrative that lets them chill in ignorance, even if your talks with them make them aware that they’re embracing self-deception. Why?

They can see how angry and frustrated you are, and how little there is you can do to change anything. And they don’t want to give up the comfort of being dumb fucking liberals for that.

So thing is, you’ve got to be chill about your passions. No you’re not elitist, you’re angry and impassioned. Don’t make being a communist look like the most frustrating miserable option available to an American. Lower your expectation of how much difference you’ll individually make and let the pressure off. The reality is, where you are in the world, you can’t do much more than educate and spread class consciousness, and trying to do more will sabotage your ability to do even that. Keep your cool when liberals open their mouths, ask questions that lead them to their contradictions.

Don’t judge yourself as a communist by your results - you’ll frustrate yourself. Judge yourself by the work you put in towards those results.

“Biden’s going to do what he’s gonna do, but I still get to go home and do X enjoyable thing tonight. We all woke up this morning. That’s good news!”

Brain melting. These are the same people who spent over half a decade screaming and crying and shitting themselves over how bad the Orange Man is. What do they even dislike about him? The mean tweets? I spit on these fucking spineless cowards.

These are people who don’t pay attention to politics because they don’t need to. All they need to do to satisfy themselves is virtue signal about how bad racism is, apparently by voting for the man who enacts the very white supremacist policies of the man they claim to despise. “Vote blue no matter who” is nothing but a free cult of loyal followers for every person with a D next to their name. Democrats have been grifting these hogs’ anti-Trump hysteria for way too long. It’s poisoning their brains.

You are not an elitist, and you need not drag yourself down to the lowest common denominator.

I don’t think you’re an elitist.

(and here I will be an elitist…maybe?) I do think you’ve missed a red flag though. Your friend, assuming this conversational quote is mostly or fully accurate, just explained to you their material reality and essentially just said, through some extrapolation, “material conditions elsewhere are bad. But my material conditions are still good.” I assume you’re a Marxist of some flavoring being here and all. So, there you have it. You as a class conscious person recognize that while materially things are still decent on average in the US (again, on average), things are incredibly “not good” elsewhere in the world and you know which country is largely responsible for that being the case: Your own.

Your friend, being willfully ignorant, a coping strategy but also a luxury afforded by all material needs being met, something nearly all Americans suffer from, just some of us are conscious of it and most of us are not, lacks the historical context perhaps beyond a vague “we did something bad a long time ago” and, furthermore, realizes the reality that we are effectively powerless at the moment. In their mind, maybe even consciously, I can’t say, they probably think of you as the weirdo or crazy to some degree because you sit around thinking about and fretting about things that we all objectively know we cannot change. I’m not trying to be, you know, doomer, or fatalistic, or whatever, but it’s simple reality that what the friend said “Biden’s going to do what he’s gonna do” is absolutely true. None of us here can stop that no matter what individual actions we take, even the most extreme ones. It would take a whole country’s army to stop Biden from doing what he wants to do if he wants it that bad. We all know we can’t change shit, some of us feel bad, and really at the end of things those of us who are conscious of things are the ones suffering for it. But only until you accept the reality of things and you understand why your friend can toss off such bad news so easily.

I think, broadly, you agree with me here. Maybe not on the powerlessness towards current US politics, but, as much as it sucks, I’d… invite you to explore that line of thought more. It’s honestly the only way out of this type of despair and alienation you’re experiencing. You either have to change everyone else or you have to learn to live with them somehow and, luckily, you already know the answer, although you don’t like the answer. Neither do I or anyone else who wishes to see more justice and equity in the world, but I don’t know what else to say than you just gotta accept that the same way worsening material conditions causes people to veer towards socialism or fascism, depending on their temperament and education and, of course, perceived class position, improving material conditions causes this sort of de-radicalization or “de-politicization” where people consciously and subconsciously refuse to see the plight of others and, more importantly, absolutely will refuse to do anything that might actually improve others’ material conditions because, in their mind, it might worsen their own. The classic story that plays out daily.

I understand you’re ranting, but I do find myself wanting to ask “what else would you have them do?” Acknowledge things are shitty elsewhere including in the US? Not play Minecraft? I’m not trying to be an asshole here, I’m being completely serious, what else should they do? And how does that compare with what you do? Again, gotta keep saying, I am absolutely not trying to be an asshole here or say “make your bed” or whatever the hell. I’m just saying, you’re laying down a lot of, I dunno, accusations? Maybe? I can’t think of a better word for it.

My interpretation of that rant, and rants aren’t always logical nor representative of true feelings, so, this is just me kinda riffing on what it written there, is basically, worst-faith nutshell “Why are you enjoying yourselves while others suffer?” (And I’m talking about acceptable enjoyment, not like racism, homophobia, etc. just to be crystal clear. I mean playing games, seeing a movie, etc.)

I think that’s a perfectly valid question, if that’s your intention. And I’d say they already answered it for you previously in your own rant. “Biden’s going to do what he’s gonna do”. I guess the real question is, and I provided my non-unique analysis already, why can’t you enjoy things? And, again, I already answered why I think you can’t. You don’t seem to have to accepted that your friend is ultimately correct as shitty and terrible as that feels.

“Biden’s going to do what he’s gonna do.” I keep quoting that because it’s actually a perfect encapsulation of a lack of class consciousness and lack of education on material reality, but also, it’s the answer to socialists, Marxists, etc. in similar veins living under a capitalist system. It’s an acceptance that shit sucks, it’s going to continue sucking for the current moment and likely many more moments ie beyond our lifetimes. The only way to settle this is through a balanced mixture of acceptance of reality (neither of us, or even 10000 of us together, can change the current system) and figuring out what you can do, within your own power, to push the needle the tiniest amount that you individually can. You have to accept first and foremost, this probably won’t benefit you. You probably won’t live to see a glorious collapse of the US and takeover of socialism. But, maybe? The point is you have to kind of… not care. Yeah, that’s really easy, I know (sarcasm). I say this stuff and I’m not even fully at this magical stage in life, although I do believe I’ve come to the better end of it after years of suffering much like you are with right-wing parents, friends, coworkers, etc. that seemingly do not care. I bashed my head on that metaphorical wall for literally years. All I can say is, you kinda just gotta… let go. That sucks, I know, everyone knows. But what else is there? You either compromise in your own mind and decide on a plan of realistic praxis that you can personally engage in, or, what else? Suffer everyday until your brain fuses together into a solid rock and you go numb or, worse, find yourself becoming a cynical ex-Marxist right winger? That sounds shitty. I took the compromise route.

It’s not easy, it fucking sucks actually, but what else can you do in the moment? If there is something that you, or I, or anyone, can do right now to stop Biden from putting kids in cages at the border I legitimately want to know so I can offer aid to it. But we both know, I hope, that we quite literally cannot stop it from happening. That fucking suuuuuucks. I am not saying, and would never advocate for, letting that rage inside die. You have to keep that indignant righteous anger that, in my opinion, is a completely natural human trait to have and feel. That’s why they spend so much time and energy trying to break people’s minds. But, hey, you made it here as a person living in the imperial core of the greatest, most hyper-capitalist country on earth. You have every incentive to turn your mind off to the plight of others, but you don’t. That should and does say something about your character. (Little self-jerk there; we deserve it).

This shit sucks because it just goes in a circle of misery. You realize you can’t change things, but you realize you are unfairly benefiting, you can’t stop that because the entire capitalist society you live in was created to benefit you via the exploitation of others, you either physically remove yourself (a commune or move to a socialist country) or you go back to the beginning of the circle where you consider “how do I change this?” “Fuck, I can’t” “Fuck, I’m benefiting still.” “Fuck, this was all created for me to be benefited.” “Fuck, I can’t just leave nor do I want to.” “Fuck, how do I change this?” On and on and on for years. Maybe it never ends, I dunno. All I can say is, I dunno, take up jogging/running if you are physically able. Some sort of cardio. Same for weightlifting if you can. Focus on your physical and mental health. Whatever extra you have on the other end put into something you find worthwhile. That might mean direct action of some sort which, to be clear, is absolutely not the solution, but it is a temporary relief to those who are helped, and that is something. I bet if you join in some community (or nearby) activities like helping with homeless people or whatever else you’ll meet some like minded people. Maybe they won’t know or care as much about Marxism, but ok, maybe you introduce it to them. I dunno. You just gotta pick out the things you can do that will help now and also push the needle slightly.

Apologies if this comes off as patronizing, etc. I felt like the entire thing was required for me to work out all my thoughts here. I could always keep typing, but, you know. Also, never apologize for long posts. I certainly don’t. (Do not look at my post history and average post lengths)

I really feel this, I’m a bit older and me and my friend group are all a relatively privilaged part of society because there still is a thriving job market for us. I try to wake them up and show to them everything that is horrible about liberal capitalism and how we’re not even remotely living a democracy, but the western bias goes too deep for most of it to come through.

I still try nevertheless, and now and then I get them to critisize the system themselves, though none of them is keen on communism, anarchism or changing the status quo in any meaningful way.

I can totally relate. There are a lot of petite bourgeois kids at my school who don’t care to learn about the world. I know someone who’s single mom can afford to be a NEET. I know a kid who gets payed 60$ an hour acting. There’s a lot of political apathy around me. Fortunately, most of the people who are interested in politics are left-libs or some kind of leftist. However a lot of people just joke about me being a commie and everything I say having to do with my ideology. I heard one kid the other day say they hated communists and vegans not because he’s ideologically against us, just because we’re annoying and try to push knowledge and action on to other people to change stuff.

Edit: My friends’ discord server almost banned me for posting 9/11 memes and made a rule that no politics is allowed. I tried to appeal that everything is political, it would be stupid because some members had liked my memes before and people could just ignore them, but one person just kept spamming stfu and acting like I was being the most offensive anyone could possibly be. I had to apologize (for not stopping speaking facts because it made people uncomfortable) eventually got the rule kind of changed, but they still want to limit politics as much as possible. I posted a anti-Israel meme recently and the mod said to remove it because no political propaganda was allowed. Little do they know my main purpose to be on that server is consciously political propaganda, so I toned it down but continue to post memes from communist discord servers.

Another reason why I feel similarly and kind of elitist is that I support the liberation of the proletariat in theory, but the imperfection (humanness) of people is weird see irl. This combines with social anxiety to make me worried about actually approaching people and organizing. Does anyone have tips with combatting internal misanthropy? I already do loving kindness meditation sometimes and try to work on social skills, but does anyone have more advice? I’ve thought about making a whole post on this before, but ive taken the chance to write my thoughts out here.

I’ll try to be as concise as I can, no promises though.

So in the first hand your anger is actually to the engines of the system, the way your friends think is consequence of said system, to think that their way of thinking is cruel is to put on their hands a lot of the syatem’s blame. Because thinking like us is hard causes some isolation, sadness frustration, so even people who kinda stumble with this way of thinking are highly disincentivised of engaging with it, and conforming to the social norm is so freaking comforting, that is no wonder that they prefer that.

So secondly I’d say that if you have friends that don’t hate you for being a communist, that’s already a lot, and you need friends and personal connections and not everything should be about furthering the revolution sometimes having fun about dumb shit is not just nice, but actually necessary, so I’d recommend to focus on the common ground you have with your friends, enjoy their company and if and when one of them expresses sincere curiosity and/or interest in what you believe you talk things over and show why you don’t like this and like that, but be very aware that they will most likely then not take a lot of misinformation as fact about communism and capitalism, so sometimes making a single tiny point and showing, kindly, all the reasons you believe in it (contesting the misinformation and mentioning your sources, Dessalines is your friend here) might be better than covering a large range of subjects, of which most of them they’ll have reasons to distrust it because of misinformation.

So about being concise, not that sucessful, but I hope I helped.

Honestly, understanding that people have a limited capacity for depressing politics and news cycles, I have more compassion for people who are disengaged rather than liberals who pretend to care and have strong progressive opinions but then fall asleep after every general election.

Next year I will have to work really hard not to be aggressively ugly to any “progressive” trying to gaslight me into voting for Biden by using Latino/Trans/Women/BlackPeople as rhetorical pawns.

I got one friend that did the same. I would just say something positively that a socialists country/person did.

Like how great it is that China got so many people out of poverty or how great it is that Havana is capable of growing a majority of all the vegetables and fruits that it’s citizens require.

After some time he would stop asking because he couldn’t stand that they are actively trying to better the life’s of its people and are achieving so many great stuff.

Have you ever thought they think youre just gullible / wasting your energy on things that don’t matter?

Joe Biden story about how he’s funding the fucking southern border wall.

Joe Biden has clearly been against this funding but he can’t legally stop it. Border Patrol has the legal funding (thanks Trump), and the power to bypass any environmental laws associated with building fences (you can thank the GOP/Trump for that too).

I bet your friend care for you too and just find it sad you’re so obsessed/angry you can’t objectively look at anything. You aren’t elitist, but you are extremist in your views (not your actions), which keeps people from taking you seriously or even dare take on the subject.

That being said, this echo chamber just fell onto my feed, I’ll see myself out!