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I feared Trump a lot less after Bush broke me. I fear another Trump less even. Younger, more idealistic me would vomit with disappointment in my shrugging and sighing instead of seething and yelling.
You’re fine with fucked up things, as long as people aren’t bothered by them? So you don’t have any personal morals at all, you just do what you think other people think should be done?
I wasn’t describing any of my personal sentiments though. I was just explaining to you how often societal things that might seem fucked up to an outsider might seem normal and mundane to those within that culture.
Yes, the point here being that it will SEEM normal. Stress on “seem”. Not “be”.
Normalising something like genital mutilation doesn’t make it okay, does it? That’s the point. We all know that a lot of the time we do learn what is right and what is wrong from the behaviour of others, but the point I’m making it is that even when we know that, we know that morals don’t stem from those norms, but from somewhere else.
Just like what we understand that laws aren’t morals. They’re not far from each other, clearly related concepts. But very clearly not the same thing.
Thus we know that norms don’t make morals, but we’ve a hard time saying what exactly does. With blatant examples though, it should be easily recognisable. The controversy in this subject I feel stems a lot from the fact that people like me who are from societies which don’t have this practice, are reacting to it strongly, because it’s genital mutilation, and for one, the “weird” society is the one which usually is the default normative one, so… there’s controversy.
Americans aren’t used to being criticised as “barbaric” imo.
It’s very rare where I live. We don’t practice genital mutilation. So it makes one raise one’s eyebrows somewhat when people consider it… “pretty mundane.”
It’s not mundane for me or where I live but their post mentioned the wife was Jewish and I assumed the person was American, in both of those cases it’d be a very mundane topic when it comes to babies.
You should consider this from their context, not yours or mine.
Yes, I understand that FOR AMERICANS, the genital mutilation of infants is very mundane.
The point I’m making is that we know that “what people are used to” doesn’t define what is right or wrong. We know that. Granted, it’s hard to say where exactly morals come from, but when we face something that feels grossly immoral, we have a strong feeling about it. Like say things having to do with the genitals of defenseless infants.
The shocking part in this is how it’s acceptable for some — like you — that some people do accept these things. There’s a whole lot of shit that say, former fascist states have done, which would be beyond horrendous, even if somewhat “mundane” to the people living in those states at those times. I’m sure you wouldn’t say “you should consider it from X perspective” if I was talking about that, because you’d realise I’m not talking about the morality of the controversial thing, I’m talking about how shocking it is how easily we (humans in general) can make horrendous things feel mundane by being exposed to them for a while, despite there still being knowledge that that thing isn’t okay. so essentially it’s willfull ignorance of something we know to be wrong, and the fact that we can do that so easily…
“This fucked up thing is fine, because we’re used to it”
I feared Trump a lot less after Bush broke me. I fear another Trump less even. Younger, more idealistic me would vomit with disappointment in my shrugging and sighing instead of seething and yelling.
That’s how things culturally work, yeah
You’re fine with fucked up things, as long as people aren’t bothered by them? So you don’t have any personal morals at all, you just do what you think other people think should be done?
Well… to each their own, I guess.
I wasn’t describing any of my personal sentiments though. I was just explaining to you how often societal things that might seem fucked up to an outsider might seem normal and mundane to those within that culture.
Lemmy is incapable of dealing with abstract thoughts, your comment made sense to me
Yes, the point here being that it will SEEM normal. Stress on “seem”. Not “be”.
Normalising something like genital mutilation doesn’t make it okay, does it? That’s the point. We all know that a lot of the time we do learn what is right and what is wrong from the behaviour of others, but the point I’m making it is that even when we know that, we know that morals don’t stem from those norms, but from somewhere else.
Just like what we understand that laws aren’t morals. They’re not far from each other, clearly related concepts. But very clearly not the same thing.
Thus we know that norms don’t make morals, but we’ve a hard time saying what exactly does. With blatant examples though, it should be easily recognisable. The controversy in this subject I feel stems a lot from the fact that people like me who are from societies which don’t have this practice, are reacting to it strongly, because it’s genital mutilation, and for one, the “weird” society is the one which usually is the default normative one, so… there’s controversy.
Americans aren’t used to being criticised as “barbaric” imo.
Talking about it is pretty normal as in it’s not very rare or distinct thing, pretty mundane. That’s why being alarmed by it seems strange.
I think most of the world does that to them already.
“Pretty mundane.”
For… you.
It’s very rare where I live. We don’t practice genital mutilation. So it makes one raise one’s eyebrows somewhat when people consider it… “pretty mundane.”
It’s not mundane for me or where I live but their post mentioned the wife was Jewish and I assumed the person was American, in both of those cases it’d be a very mundane topic when it comes to babies.
You should consider this from their context, not yours or mine.
I’m sort of tired of repeating myself…
Yes, I understand that FOR AMERICANS, the genital mutilation of infants is very mundane.
The point I’m making is that we know that “what people are used to” doesn’t define what is right or wrong. We know that. Granted, it’s hard to say where exactly morals come from, but when we face something that feels grossly immoral, we have a strong feeling about it. Like say things having to do with the genitals of defenseless infants.
The shocking part in this is how it’s acceptable for some — like you — that some people do accept these things. There’s a whole lot of shit that say, former fascist states have done, which would be beyond horrendous, even if somewhat “mundane” to the people living in those states at those times. I’m sure you wouldn’t say “you should consider it from X perspective” if I was talking about that, because you’d realise I’m not talking about the morality of the controversial thing, I’m talking about how shocking it is how easily we (humans in general) can make horrendous things feel mundane by being exposed to them for a while, despite there still being knowledge that that thing isn’t okay. so essentially it’s willfull ignorance of something we know to be wrong, and the fact that we can do that so easily…