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In France, none of my friends, coworkers, or family members are religious, and they’re not on Lemmy either a.f.a.i.k. I’d say that on the Internet there’s the same proportion of ‘anti-communists’//communists among christians and atheists, but once again it’s hard for me to identify an internet user as christian so it’d be hard to compare, i liked DebateReligion and CapitalismVsSocialism on reddit, do you know per chance if there’re similar communities somewhere on Lemmy ?
(/c/[email protected] probably has the answer, but i don’t think i have much time to dedicate to it anyway)
B.t.w., another lie told is that religion was only allowed after 1991 in the u.s.s.r., while the article 52 of the 1977 constitution(, and probably before,) already granted it, it’s just sometimes a lie that we can happen to read, among others(, and ignoring the reasons behind the initial conflict).
And yeah, all the economic arguments don’t stand against the economic success of the u.s.s.r., despite the sanctions and the military burden(, and failure of capitalist countries from South America and Africa, pointing out that choosing to reduce or not inegalities/hierarchy isn’t the most important factor).
And even if progress was indeed slower under all forms of socialism, which i don’t believe, then perhaps that still, despite that, speed&power isn’t the most important factor, and also that competition between humans and countries should be replaced by cooperation. Well, you already know that, it’s just that we(sterners) refuse to live with communists under pretenses that don’t make sense, we should at least allow them to be different, even if our capitalists-owned countries will have to protect themselves from communist propaganda, a serious case could be made that a united&peaceful world with countries from all kind of ideologies would be greater/‘more instructive’ than an hegemonic communist world, theses benefit from the existence of antitheses for its progress, the alternative to coexistence is something i’d rather not think about, and unecessary/undesirable.
In France, none of my friends, coworkers, or family members are religious
No idea how in France, but in Poland i never met nor heard about religious people who wouldn’t be hostile to communism.
do you know per chance if there’re similar communities somewhere on Lemmy ?
No, i do not know. “CapitalismVsSocialism” or something like that on lemmy would be swarmed by the vilest redditors from multiple anticommunist instances and unusable anyway.
And even if progress was indeed slower under all forms of socialism, which i don’t believe
It was much faster. Still is when you compare socialist and capitalist countries on similar level of development.
a serious case could be made that a united&peaceful world with countries from all kind of ideologies would be greater/‘more instructive’ than an hegemonic communist world
Absolutely not. Capitalism needs to grow to function. Eventually it crashes because infinite growth is not possible on finite planet, but in the meantime capitalist states would necessarily tried to expand on the socialist ones. It makes communism impossible when capitalism still exist because you cannot make stateless, classless, moneyless society when some warlords want to colonize you. Capitalism must be completely eradicated as a system in order to achieve communism.
the alternative to coexistence is something i’d rather not think about, and unecessary/undesirable.
Coexistence with capitalism? That’s paradox of tolerance, capitalism cannot tolerate noncapitalist countries, you can notice this everywhere in its history, both feudal and socialist states (not to mention weaker capitalist states) always came under the attack of stronger ones. Read Lenin’s “Imperialism: the highest state of capitalism”
in Poland i never met nor heard about religious people who wouldn’t be hostile to communism.
Yeah i’m not surprised, most people in France are either hostile or ignorant about communism, because freedom, and since “we live in the least worst system we know”.
I suppose that it may be hard two generations later to still find communist people in Poland after the ban of communist symbols and ideas, and having one of the highest growths in Europe.
On coexistence, united in diversity, this a topic that i’'ve been very interested in for the last years.
First, the middle ages proved that capitalism, or feodalism, or slavery, can subsist with a stagnation, as long as they’re powerful enough to maintain their exploitation of the laborers.
Even if that wasn’t the case, there’re new technologies to report this end of ressources such as thorium-based nuclear reactors, green chemistry, asteroids mining, …
Your point about ideologies wanting to expand is the most obvious one, i think that a world united in diversity wouldn’t stagnate, ideologies should expand slowly and naturally, local laws could enable an initially socialist city/region to become&stay capitalist a very long time, within a socialist country, there shouldn’t be a conflict, just personal preferences enriching all of us.
Of course, there’s some conditions, i usually talk about a common army, an effective and somehow incorruptible world tribunal to prevent covert actions, very few laws at the world-level but more and more federal->national->regional->communal laws piling upon each other, and world projects, a collaboration between all countries on all levels, shared medias and a celebration of each other diversity, and certainly more, do you see other conditions ?
It’s what i wrote earlier about utopias, we need to set the goal in mind and progressively walk towards it, not… simply living, without a clear common goal, so weird not to know the short&long-term objectives of our countries.
What i’m saying is that a set of condition exist so that every country would leave in peace, united yet diverse, without any more reason to worry about their security, and to waste abysmal funds in maintaining a national army, capitalists countries would be protected, socialists as well, islamists, and whatever else survived the colonization.
In France, none of my friends, coworkers, or family members are religious, and they’re not on Lemmy either a.f.a.i.k. I’d say that on the Internet there’s the same proportion of ‘anti-communists’//communists among christians and atheists, but once again it’s hard for me to identify an internet user as christian so it’d be hard to compare, i liked DebateReligion and CapitalismVsSocialism on reddit, do you know per chance if there’re similar communities somewhere on Lemmy ?
(/c/[email protected] probably has the answer, but i don’t think i have much time to dedicate to it anyway)
B.t.w., another lie told is that religion was only allowed after 1991 in the u.s.s.r., while the article 52 of the 1977 constitution(, and probably before,) already granted it, it’s just sometimes a lie that we can happen to read, among others(, and ignoring the reasons behind the initial conflict).
And yeah, all the economic arguments don’t stand against the economic success of the u.s.s.r., despite the sanctions and the military burden(, and failure of capitalist countries from South America and Africa, pointing out that choosing to reduce or not inegalities/hierarchy isn’t the most important factor).
And even if progress was indeed slower under all forms of socialism, which i don’t believe, then perhaps that still, despite that, speed&power isn’t the most important factor, and also that competition between humans and countries should be replaced by cooperation. Well, you already know that, it’s just that we(sterners) refuse to live with communists under pretenses that don’t make sense, we should at least allow them to be different, even if our capitalists-owned countries will have to protect themselves from communist propaganda, a serious case could be made that a united&peaceful world with countries from all kind of ideologies would be greater/‘more instructive’ than an hegemonic communist world, theses benefit from the existence of antitheses for its progress, the alternative to coexistence is something i’d rather not think about, and unecessary/undesirable.
No idea how in France, but in Poland i never met nor heard about religious people who wouldn’t be hostile to communism.
No, i do not know. “CapitalismVsSocialism” or something like that on lemmy would be swarmed by the vilest redditors from multiple anticommunist instances and unusable anyway.
It was much faster. Still is when you compare socialist and capitalist countries on similar level of development.
Absolutely not. Capitalism needs to grow to function. Eventually it crashes because infinite growth is not possible on finite planet, but in the meantime capitalist states would necessarily tried to expand on the socialist ones. It makes communism impossible when capitalism still exist because you cannot make stateless, classless, moneyless society when some warlords want to colonize you. Capitalism must be completely eradicated as a system in order to achieve communism.
Coexistence with capitalism? That’s paradox of tolerance, capitalism cannot tolerate noncapitalist countries, you can notice this everywhere in its history, both feudal and socialist states (not to mention weaker capitalist states) always came under the attack of stronger ones. Read Lenin’s “Imperialism: the highest state of capitalism”
Yeah i’m not surprised, most people in France are either hostile or ignorant about communism, because freedom, and since “we live in the least worst system we know”.
I suppose that it may be hard two generations later to still find communist people in Poland after the ban of communist symbols and ideas, and having one of the highest growths in Europe.
On coexistence, united in diversity, this a topic that i’'ve been very interested in for the last years. First, the middle ages proved that capitalism, or feodalism, or slavery, can subsist with a stagnation, as long as they’re powerful enough to maintain their exploitation of the laborers.
Even if that wasn’t the case, there’re new technologies to report this end of ressources such as thorium-based nuclear reactors, green chemistry, asteroids mining, …
Your point about ideologies wanting to expand is the most obvious one, i think that a world united in diversity wouldn’t stagnate, ideologies should expand slowly and naturally, local laws could enable an initially socialist city/region to become&stay capitalist a very long time, within a socialist country, there shouldn’t be a conflict, just personal preferences enriching all of us.
Of course, there’s some conditions, i usually talk about a common army, an effective and somehow incorruptible world tribunal to prevent covert actions, very few laws at the world-level but more and more federal->national->regional->communal laws piling upon each other, and world projects, a collaboration between all countries on all levels, shared medias and a celebration of each other diversity, and certainly more, do you see other conditions ?
It’s what i wrote earlier about utopias, we need to set the goal in mind and progressively walk towards it, not… simply living, without a clear common goal, so weird not to know the short&long-term objectives of our countries.
What i’m saying is that a set of condition exist so that every country would leave in peace, united yet diverse, without any more reason to worry about their security, and to waste abysmal funds in maintaining a national army, capitalists countries would be protected, socialists as well, islamists, and whatever else survived the colonization.