• NightAuthor@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    By 2027, all phones released in the EU must have a battery the user can easily replace with no tools or expertise.

    • alehel@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      The no tools part seems a bit extreme. So a manufacturer can’t use a few standard screws to keep things in place?

      • NightAuthor@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        They seemed to be just fine with the snap on backs before, hell they even made water resistant phones with snap on backs and removable batteries.

      • CreativeTensors@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        AFAIK it allows the use of common tools or specialized tools (as long as they are provided free of charge) and a layperson can accomplish the repair.

        (38) In order to ensure that portable batteries that were incorporated into appliances are subject to separate collection, treatment and high quality recycling once those appliances become waste, provisions to ensure the removability and replaceability of batteries in such appliances are necessary. Consumer safety should be ensured, in line with Union law and in particular Union safety standards, during the removal of portable batteries from or the replacement of portable batteries in an appliance. A portable battery should be considered to be removable by the end-user when it can be removed with the use of commercially available tools and without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless they are provided free of charge, or proprietary tools, thermal energy or solvents to disassemble it.

        Edit: Source - First PDF link on the page

      • abhibeckert@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        “Common” tools are allowed. So a small phillips head for example. Or a basic lever to pry the back off.

        “Specialised” tools are also allowed if the tool is included in the box (sim tray ejector pins are a good example of how that might work).

        Strictly speaking, the latest iPhones do have “user replaceable” batteries… but the tools are never going to be included with every phone:

      • NightAuthor@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        Imagine they just invent a battery less phone to spite the ruling, but then that’d be one less consumable component.

        • CreativeTensors@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          My guess would be DRM locked batteries with jacked up pricing and a lifespan counter that disables the battery after a set period of time regardless of whether or not it still has life left in it, basically the printer ink model.

    • upstream@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      Was hoping it wouldn’t be phrased that way. That’s going to make phones less waterproof and significantly reduce the battery capacity or increase the size.

      I’d be much more happy with a screwdriver and sliding the lid off, disconnecting a connector that’s made available for end user fiddling, swapping in the new battery and then putting it back in.

      On the other hand I hope manufacturers find a way. This might open up for bigger batteries where the battery is basically the outside of the phone and you just wrap it in a case.

      Actually, thinking about it - external batteries might be the solution to waterproofness.

      This will likely also see a rise in cheap knockoff batteries catching fire. It’s not unprecedented, and people are like “a battery is a battery”. Well, they aren’t.

      Will be interesting to see how this is handled.

      • massive_meatballs@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        The last time I heard phone batteries catching fire was the Samsung Note 7 and those weren’t user replacable. There’s a lot of fearmongering on what you wrote, it almost sounds like a script the manufacturers’ lobby would write to avoid this legislation. Are you really assuming the EU doesn’t have laws and safety regulations for Li-ion batteries et al.?

        • upstream@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          I don’t think Ali express does. Not trying to “fear monger”, but it’s an issue today, it’s just not interesting to report on due to Note 7 and people got used to reading about it so it doesn’t generate clicks anymore.

          I honestly just feel like I was stating the obvious ¯_(ツ)_/¯

          Not seeing it as a huge problem, just that it’s going to increase.

        • abhibeckert@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          The last time I heard phone batteries catching fire was the Samsung Note 7

          The Samsung one made the news because they’re a reputable manufacturer. But less reputable ones have fires all the time and it doesn’t make the news.

          In less than a full year, just New York City alone had 174 fires, 93 injuries and three deaths. All caused by batteries catching fire.

          Also… while I support user replaceable batteries it’s definitely going to cause problems. In my (small) city two garbage trucks caught fire just last week - both of them were batteries that had been thrown in the trash, then crushed inside the truck. They were forced to dump a full load of trash in the middle of the road wherever they happened to be driving and it took hours to put out the fire. Everyone ignores the warning sticker telling you to dispose of them properly.

      • probably@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        My galaxy s5 was waterproof and had a removable battery by popping off the back case. They can manage.

      • alehel@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        This will likely also see a rise in cheap knockoff batteries catching fire. It’s not unprecedented, and people are like “a battery is a battery”. Well, they aren’t.

        If those batteries are being sold in the EU they would still have to meet EU requirements. This might be an issue if people go to buy them from places like aliexpress or something like that though.

        That said, phones were available for years and years with replaceable batteries. Don’t think I ever really heard of any of them catching fire before the Note 7 issues, and those were related to the phone not giving the batteries enough room to expand/contract, wasn’t it?

        • upstream@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          Plenty of cases before the note 7, just that it feels like they stopped reporting on it since the note 7.

          The note 7 batteries had manufacturing defects so they short circuited internally. Having been given more room they would still have caught fire.

  • HiT3k@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    This article is clickbait. There are exceptions for devices that are “waterproof” or have batteries that last a certain number of cycles.

    This isn’t going to change a thing (especially it EU judges allow IP68 to be considered “waterproof.”)

    • abhibeckert@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      IP68 is defined as:

      suitable for continuous immersion in water under conditions which the manufacturer shall specify

      The Apple “conditions” include this choice quote:

      resistant to accidental spills from common liquids

      And this one:

      Splash, water and dust resistance are not permanent conditions and resistance might decrease as a result of normal wear. Liquid damage is not covered under warranty

      I think it would be hard for Apple to argue handling “accidental spills” meets the EU requirement for the device to be “regularly subject to splashing water”. Especially when “normal wear” can decrease the water resistance and it’s not covered under warranty.

      If, on the other hand, Apple actually makes a phone I can use to record my kids swimming underwater… heck yeah that sounds awesome. I’d totally sacrifice a user replaceable battery. Bring it on.

    • flux@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      Does it though? https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2023-0237_EN.html#title1:~:text=(39)   To,by end-users. does say

      To ensure the safety of end-users, this Regulation should provide for a limited derogation for portable batteries from the removability and replaceability requirements set for portable batteries concerning appliances that incorporate portable batteries and that are specifically designed to be used, for the majority of the active service of the appliance, in an environment that is regularly subject to splashing water, water streams or water immersion and that are intended to be washable or rinseable. This derogation should only apply when it is not possible, by way of redesign of the appliance, to ensure the safety of the end-user and the safe continued use of the appliance after the end-user has correctly followed the instructions to remove and replace the battery. Where the derogation applies, the product should be designed in such a way as to make the battery removable and replaceable only by independent professionals, and not by end-users.

      (emphasis mine)

      I dont think it would be acceptable to argue a regular consumer phone would fall into that exception.

    • alehel@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      That’s what I was thinking 🤣. I’ve had mine 2 1/2 years now. Another 4 years might be pushing my luck, but if I get an official batter replacement in a year or two, it should be able to survive.

      • CatBusBand@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        Oh yeah the battery should be easy-ish to replace. I’m more worried about software updates. I think I’ll do custom ROMs as a last resort

    • Baggins@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      That should be doable of you’ve got a recent model.

      This phone is an S23 bought earlier this year. With care and poss a new battery fitted by Samsung or in a shop, it should do that.

      My last phone had to have a new screen, fitted by Samsung mobile unit. They replaced the battery as part of the process.

      We never needed phones as thin and light as possible that we can use in a shower or the pool.

      They became fashion items rather than tools.

      • snowbell@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        I wonder if I can get my Pixel 3 to last that long. I need a battery replacement but it also needs to be waterproof as my motorcycle GPS.

      • alehel@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        I have an S21 and even I think I should be able to last that long as long as I get an official battery replacement done in a year or two. I’ve had it 2 1/2 years and still haven’t really noticed any degredation in battery performance. Wondering if todays batteries hold up better than the older models. My S7 battery became unusable after a couple of years.