Crosspost from [email protected].

An overview of studies which investigate correlations between morality and religious vs. secular / atheist ideologies presented by Phil Zuckerman who is a professor of sociology and secular studies at the Claremont colleges in California, USA.

Summary: Atheists / secular people not only have morals but are even more moral than religious people.

Note: Of course moral is a matter of perspective. In this context we agree that compassion and empathy are our foundations of moral.

  • eric@lemmy.worldEnglish
    517·
    11 months ago

    The counter argument that I hear from other atheists that aren’t anti-religious is that religions makes stupid people more moral than they would be if they didn’t have the looming threat of angering their sky daddy.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldEnglish
      243·
      11 months ago

      I have never heard that argument from an atheist. Only from religious people who claim there’s no morality without their god.

      • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
        2·
        11 months ago

        The dude who made the McDonald’s documentary had a show putting opposite people together. A Christian lived with a Muslim family. He said that if you don’t get your values from god, he couldn’t imagine where you got them. He couldn’t imagine empathy.

        • jasory@programming.devEnglish
          11·
          11 months ago

          Again empathy doesn’t entail morally good actions, any more than a sense of smell entails a popular choice of perfume.

      • eric@lemmy.worldEnglish
        43·
        11 months ago

        That’s a completely different argument, and one I’ve had with many religious people, but that’s not what I’m referring to.

        Empathy and logic require intelligence, yet many people are too stupid to be empathetic or logical, and religion provides them with a much simpler reason to do the right thing when no one is looking.

        • Halasham@dormi.zoneEnglish
          1·
          11 months ago

          Can you give an example of how this reasoning is suppose to work? Trying to parse this the only behaviors coming to mind are the ‘fire & brimstone’ type. The 'I hate those people ‘cause the pastor said the book says to’.

          • jasory@programming.devEnglish
            21·
            11 months ago

            “Can you give an example of how this reasoning is supposed to work”

            Easily. Fear of punishment is a deterrent1.

            1. Yes fear of punishment is absolutely a deterrent, it simply isn’t a strong deterrent because most crime goes unreported and punished (this would not be a concern about an omniscient god). The fact that simple things like additional security are very effective, shows that fear of negative consequences (aka punishment) is actually effective.
        • jasory@programming.devEnglish
          15·
          11 months ago

          Technically most non-philosopher atheists seem to ascribe to moral anti-realism, which logically leads to the moral permissibility of all actions. It’s actually them engaging in erroneous logic that they adhere to morally good behavior.

    • Taleya@aussie.zoneEnglish
      152·
      11 months ago

      Pff no. They just find a way to use the religion to justify what they’re doing

      • eric@lemmy.worldEnglish
        24·
        11 months ago

        Some will, but I’d posit that’s not the dumb people that I’m referring to that are responsible for that. It’s more the smart immoral people that are using religion to manipulate other less intelligent and less logical faithful people into doing evil in the name of religion.

      • RandoCalrandian@kbin.social
        31·
        11 months ago

        This.

        “No matter what I do, it’s ok because sky daddy forgives me! I can be as shitty as I want to people and just feel bad and confess later, and everything is ok!”

        Ever wonder why religions are incredibly popular among criminals?

        • jasory@programming.devEnglish
          11·
          11 months ago

          This certainly doesn’t seem to be a practice among religious individuals any more than non-religious. One still has to factor in that even if “sky-daddy” forgives you, there is still social pressure to “atone” for one’s actions. So trying to pin poor behaviour on belief in a “forgiving sky-daddy”, requires proving that the social pressures disappear, and good luck with that.

          • RandoCalrandian@kbin.social
            1·
            11 months ago

            Like “born again” virgins?

            Using religion to protect from the social pressure is the whole point

            “Only god can judge me!”

            And they get away with it far too often, without even a sense of guilt to slow them down

    • RandoCalrandian@kbin.social
      1·
      11 months ago

      “Moral”

      Religion is the opiate of the masses, for certain

      The problem is that the “moral” things they induce people to do are many times anything but