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Those are drops in the ocean. My final question, I think, stands on its own. Those tiny scraps they give the working class does not matter to those who they opprese.
Those are definitely not drops in the ocean. It’s the difference between whether you can get an abortion or not, whether you have paid sick leave or not, whether you can have your life upended for smoking a joint, etc. Those are material things people actually care about.
We agree that these are scraps when compared to what the working class deserves, but most people correctly see that the full meal is not on the table right now. They see scraps vs. someone getting punched in the face. That’s a real difference even though both options are bad.
I don’t know how I can state this more plainly: I’m talking about how Americans see the two parties, because that’s what this post seems to refer to.
If we want to stop this engine of death it’s either nuclear war or dismantling it from the inside. Having a clear understanding of domestic U.S. politics is useful; “everyone is a fascist but my True Leftist friends” is not.
The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s plantation; and this ‘holding the nose and supporting our enemies’ shit is the master’s tools; right up there with ‘turning the other cheek’.
That’s probably right, but it sure implies the system’s tools of oppression can’t be seized and used against our oppressors. Comes across as very anarchist.
“The master’s tools” here would be elections, the courts, and otherwise working through the institutions of bourgeois democracy. I’m not suggesting that. I’m saying that policies like abortion are material issues that Americans do care about.
The US will be dismantled from the inside when conditions for everyday Americans get bad enough that they no longer see their interests as aligning with imperialism. That’s just starting to happen, and as a matter of fact Republicans are right now the ones articulating popular anger and anti-war sentiment – hypocritically and not at all well, so you shouldn’t support them either. But it gives the lie to the “Democrats are slightly better” line, which reflected reality all through the Bush years and now doesn’t reflect reality at all.
Imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism, and American domestic politics and and American foreign policy are not separate issues. They go hand in hand. Perhaps I’m misreading The Squad, and they’re actually all brilliant politicians, who are even now working on a masterplan which will bring back the prosperity of the 50s and 60s; but even if they succeeded in doing that, it would be through foreign wars and resource extraction. (And in point of fact, that too would be impossible: American capitalism is now in its late, decadent stage where it can only produce wealth at home by destroying it elsewhere. Hemmed in by Russia and China, the American ruling class has to turn inward and undevelop the United States itself. Insofar as the Democrats are major party working within the system, they too are complicit in this).
This post is clearly about domestic American politics. The people I’m arguing with are intentionally ignoring that contex to get angry over something no one here disagrees with them on. If they’re trying to say that we should never discuss domestic American politics because who cares, America does horrible things abroad, that’s just a ridiculous take – obviously we can talk about both.
It’s just a an extremely bad faith reading of all the comments in here that are trying to discuss what the post actually says.
What would you call it when you repeatedly say Democrats are not good, and even compare them to a huge pile of shit, and then someone claims you’re defending genocide?
Those are drops in the ocean. My final question, I think, stands on its own. Those tiny scraps they give the working class does not matter to those who they opprese.
Those are definitely not drops in the ocean. It’s the difference between whether you can get an abortion or not, whether you have paid sick leave or not, whether you can have your life upended for smoking a joint, etc. Those are material things people actually care about.
We agree that these are scraps when compared to what the working class deserves, but most people correctly see that the full meal is not on the table right now. They see scraps vs. someone getting punched in the face. That’s a real difference even though both options are bad.
Rights (albeit very minimal) for the working class at home, but genocide for those untermenschen abroad? What does this sound like?
I don’t know how I can state this more plainly: I’m talking about how Americans see the two parties, because that’s what this post seems to refer to.
If we want to stop this engine of death it’s either nuclear war or dismantling it from the inside. Having a clear understanding of domestic U.S. politics is useful; “everyone is a fascist but my True Leftist friends” is not.
The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s plantation; and this ‘holding the nose and supporting our enemies’ shit is the master’s tools; right up there with ‘turning the other cheek’.
I never liked this quote.
The plantation master’s gun shoots bullets as good as any other gun. Sure as hell seems like I can use his tools against him lol
I think the point is that you can’t dismantle the system with only the tools the system tells you to use.
That’s probably right, but it sure implies the system’s tools of oppression can’t be seized and used against our oppressors. Comes across as very anarchist.
“The master’s tools” here would be elections, the courts, and otherwise working through the institutions of bourgeois democracy. I’m not suggesting that. I’m saying that policies like abortion are material issues that Americans do care about.
The US will be dismantled from the inside when conditions for everyday Americans get bad enough that they no longer see their interests as aligning with imperialism. That’s just starting to happen, and as a matter of fact Republicans are right now the ones articulating popular anger and anti-war sentiment – hypocritically and not at all well, so you shouldn’t support them either. But it gives the lie to the “Democrats are slightly better” line, which reflected reality all through the Bush years and now doesn’t reflect reality at all.
Imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism, and American domestic politics and and American foreign policy are not separate issues. They go hand in hand. Perhaps I’m misreading The Squad, and they’re actually all brilliant politicians, who are even now working on a masterplan which will bring back the prosperity of the 50s and 60s; but even if they succeeded in doing that, it would be through foreign wars and resource extraction. (And in point of fact, that too would be impossible: American capitalism is now in its late, decadent stage where it can only produce wealth at home by destroying it elsewhere. Hemmed in by Russia and China, the American ruling class has to turn inward and undevelop the United States itself. Insofar as the Democrats are major party working within the system, they too are complicit in this).
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This post is clearly about domestic American politics. The people I’m arguing with are intentionally ignoring that contex to get angry over something no one here disagrees with them on. If they’re trying to say that we should never discuss domestic American politics because who cares, America does horrible things abroad, that’s just a ridiculous take – obviously we can talk about both.
It’s just a an extremely bad faith reading of all the comments in here that are trying to discuss what the post actually says.
I don’t think you should conclude that the response you’ve had is down to bad faith.
What would you call it when you repeatedly say Democrats are not good, and even compare them to a huge pile of shit, and then someone claims you’re defending genocide?
You need to zoom out of the USA for a few seconds and get some perspective.