• shatal@lemmy.worldOP
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          1 year ago

          Let me guess, you’re a “from the river to the sea” supporter

            • jet@hackertalks.com
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              1 year ago

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4upvoxP9-kg

              It’s… complicated. There is a back and forth through out history.

              I’d say the British are the most responsible for the current situation, but it really doesn’t matter. People need to just be able to live, and nobody should have the right to claim land for a religion to the exclusion of anyone else.

              This land is for religion X and nobody else… these people are wrong, and only create violence. (yes, that includes most of our current participants in today’s war).

              • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                The thing is the morality of the issue is not that complicated.

                It’s as complicated as the genocide of native americans and their expulsion into “reservations” where they still lack the same access to infrastructure, healthcare, education as the rest of the country today.

                As complicated as apartheid south africa or the irish republicans.

                The history is complicated in the sense that it is war with many atrocities and injustices. But the root of the issue, the cause for all these atrocities that the colonialists suffer in retaliation is colonialism.

                • jet@hackertalks.com
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                  1 year ago

                  Sure, there was a wronged party, and many students will get their PhDs in analyzing guilt and documenting atrocities.

                  The USA is still in no hurry to give back land to the Native Americans. They are as sorry as all heck… but the practical reality is they want to continue to exist, and are not willing to give up anything strategic for historical purposes.

                  The key to life is, the past is informative, but not important, the future is what is important. Living in peace but wronged is better then dying right in war.

                  • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    Right, but when someone asks me who I stand with on these conflicts, it’s not the English, the Boers or the English (again).

                    The native americans, the Zulu, the IRA all committed terrible things on the colonialist civilians as well. And yet when you ask today who was in the right to fight the war that was fought, it’s those parties. Never the colonialists.

                • shatal@lemmy.worldOP
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                  1 year ago

                  The problem is that you’re Americanising this conflict.

                  There are Israeli Arabs, Druze and Bedouin that lived in the region for centuries and are now happy to identify as Israeli (look online for Arab Israelis for Israel. Get out of the echo chambers). There are Jewish families that have been there since the Roman empire.

                  On the flip side there are hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that migrated to the region in the 1930’s and 40’s, their family names today still indicate their family origins in Tunisia, Egypt, Iraq etc.

                  If you really want to dive down the historical rabbit hole of the region we’ll be here for hours, but trying to frame this conflict as a white colonisers vs indigenous people is historically and factually incorrect.

                  • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    But is it incorrect? You have people from Staten island and California move into an arab families home today and the IDF will protect them and the family whose home just got occupied better not twitch a muscle too abruptly. You’re painting this as if I have to draw from long settled history to support my argument, I don’t.

                    But this displacement has been going on for close to a hundred years now. The establishment of the State of Israel had the zionist militias empty out villages and force the people into the desert trail of tears style. Like the establishment of any other colonial state and not just the US, but like the examples I mentioned before so I don’t know where this “americanising” is coming from, South Africa, Ireland, Congo, Haiti and many many many other countries before Israel.

            • shatal@lemmy.worldOP
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              1 year ago

              That really depends on how far back in history you want to go. We can even start with Muhammad and the Jewish tribes massacres (Banu Qurayza for example).

              But honestly, I don’t think that that’s a productive approach. This is a live, dynamic and constantly changing conflict. The things that defined it 100 or even 50 years ago are no longer relevant.

              • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                The israeli people living there today have no ancestry back to mohammedan times. They’re 99% converts. But really, you wanted to go back to the start. As if you are going to find some historical excuse that could justify the use of white phosphorus, bombing of hospitals, the bombing of roads that the population were told to take to move south by the very same army doing the bombardment. Some point in time where you can point to and claim “See, this is why the israeli’s are justified in starving and bombing and terrorizing these people in an open-air prison”.

                • shatal@lemmy.worldOP
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                  1 year ago

                  The israeli people living there today have no ancestry back to mohammedan times

                  I don’t understand this claim. Can you explain?

                  You’re diverting, arguing with a straw man and pushing propaganda. Everything you said can be disproved by a quick Google search.

                  • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    I’m going to pull the “no u” card here, because you’re the one who brought up “how this war started” to divert from the ongoing genocide.