I’ve had this question for quite awhile but don’t really know who to consult about it.
I’ve revealed that I’m a university-aged guy on here and so there’s a lot of talk surrounding what people want to do with their lives. Naturally, I’ve gotten some less than desirable answers. I don’t know how to go about responding.
For example, some people want to be cops or work for a three letter agency (I’m in the US). We can obviously see how that’s not a good thing. I’m just torn on how I should respond. I’m not going to shit on these people, they’re fundamentally good, just misinformed. But my morals cannot allow me in good faith to be like “oh cool yeah!”
How should I respond when someone wants to work for the oppressive state (assuming they’re naive/ignorant about it and not like, openly fascist)
The first thing I try to do is ask why. A lot of people still have this notion that law enforcement and military is there to protect people. Just ask a few questions about why they want to join an institution like that, and maybe get them to think about other ways they could help people. That’s probably all you can do.
law enforcement
“It’s like being in the military, but without any of the oversight!” — most honest chud
“You want to be a cop/soldier/agent? What’s more appealing to you, shooting brown people or being a jackboot for our capitalist overlords?”
Don’t be nice to acquaintances, stinging critique will stay on their mind more than gently prodding them. If it’s friends or family and you think they won’t want to talk to you if you use such rhetoric then maybe you hold their hand and try and engage in a longer, more nuanced and less hostile discussion but be clear about your views and present them evidence as to what these organisations really are.
Cop? What happens to do gooder whistle blowing types? They die.
Soldiers? What the fuck were they doing protecting poppy plantations in Afghanistan?
CIA? show then the Stockwell interviews on what they did
Fbi? Murdered Fred Hampton
Soldiers? What the fuck were they doing protecting poppy plantations in Afghanistan?
Get paid min wage to be a suicide bomber for google
“Silly commie, I can simply support these groups’ evil deeds from a cushy tech job. Not everyone is actually doing stuff in the field.”
For some people it isn’t worth the argument because they’ve dug into that stance and arguing will make them dig deeper. My Libertarian friend went that route, he was Pro-Palestine, Pro-Gun and over time I changed his opinion on Unions, but he joined the US Army and no amount of talk changed their opinion, they dug in further and I barely talk to them now. That isn’t the case for everyone but just a warning
I agree with the sentiments of asking why they want to do those things. If they want to help/protect people, that’s a good thing even if their conclusion of how to do that is wrong. Maybe can help suggest other fields they can engage in that would serve that goal without being the obvious law enforcement choices.
I know of a couple people that want to join the military. I intend to make a presentation for school about all the terrible stuff they’ve done at some point.
As for being a cop, I think there is not much problem with it, it is important to separate the institution of the people on it, and furthermore, if everyone with left leaning thinking goes away from cops/army, the corps get more and more entrenched in liberal right wing thought. The average cop is a workforce person, there is value on going into those spaces and trying to make a change, even if slowly, I don’t see it as a problem. As far as the 3 letter agencies, those are rougher, because there is no pretense there, you will be actually charged of fucking everybody for the sake of the state, so yeah, I can see very little opportunity to do good on those agencies, but being a cop and/or soldier I see the value. I do think that good people being cops are a good thing, it is a corrupt organization that serves to uphold the exploitation of the proletariat, sure, but can be a slightly less bad corrupt organization, with the right people occupying the right spots.
There are no good cops in capitalist countries. The institution corrupts individuals, and well intentioned individuals cannot affect the change required. Their job is to be the boot of the empire. Police are used to protect capital and repress dissent. There is nothing good about participating in that.
There are no good soldiers or other military personell in capitalist militaries. Their job is to be the spear of the empire. They kill and destroy so the ruling class of the empire may profit. A well intentioned soldier cannot affect the change required.
I don’t subscribe to the damage limitation or lesser evil argument here. The only way police and military can be made into forces for the people and not against the people is through a revolution.
I don’t know about the no good cops thing, but I get the institution pressuring people, but I still think that good people in sufficient numbers can make the gears start grinding a little and making it less oppressive. I am fully aware that the police institution is the boot and cannot be reformed from the inside, but having good people there can be a way to diminish some harm, at least I believe that.
And about soldiers, if you look into the history of Venezuela when soldiers where sent to oppress some neighborhoods many soldiers including Hugo Chavez defected and started to defend the neighborhood, so I think that there is material evidence that things are not that cut and dried as you suggest.