I’m considering getting a laptop for Linux and want to know a few things before I do. Some important info before I start: I don’t plan on using the laptop for anything too intense, mainly writing, digital art, streaming, browsing, and maybe very mild video editing (cropping at least and shortening at most). I would also prefer the laptop to be inexpensive, preferably under 1000 USD
I mainly want to know if whether I should get a laptop by a manufacturer that specializes in Linux or a laptop that runs a different OS (exp: Windows) to install Linux on later. I’ve also scouted out quite a few distros and have a good idea of which ones I would like using
I’ve already looked at a few mainline Linux hardware producers like System76 but want to know if it’s worth it before sinking money into it
Check out Framework if you haven’t already! https://frame.work/linux
They’re designed to be upgraded and repaired over time so they’re super modular. You can also save some money if you’re not afraid to put it together yourself.
How’s the Camera working on these? On most recent laptops it seems not to be just a camera sensor like in the good ol’ days, but a full blown i2c module, which does a lot of processing before delivering the images, and with rather obscure code that people is really struggling to build drivers for.
Works fine on Linux for me, you sure you mean i2c? I think you mean v4l2 or something, i2c max bitrate is like 500kbit/s. I can check but I’m pretty sure it’s usb or something similar, it works on Google hangouts on Chrome at least, I use my fw for work.
While I support the framework laptop, OP did also say under a thousand dollars. You cannot really get a framework laptop for that price.
Edit: Thousand, not hundred
You can get a diy base framework 13 with either intel or amd for $849 w/o ram and the ssd, and just purchase those part separately for just about $1000 total.
And if you’re replacing one, you could possibly pull the ram and SSD from it to use in the frame work.
The SSD will need to be an M.2 form factor, and the ram will need to be SODIMM DDR5; both of which are relatively new form factors in the grand scheme of things. The ssd from a former laptop will probably fit, but SODIMM DDR5 is maybe two years old at this point. The older intel models that still use DDR4 are out of stock at this point on the framework website.
True. But framework is an investment in a sustainable future since the mobo is upgradeable.
Mine in in the mail. Got the shipping notification last night. So excited! I didn’t the past year saving up for it. I’m glad to see that everything works out of the box with Fedora.
While the laptops being so modular is really useful, the list of supported OS seem a bit narrow, although that doesn’t mean I’m not considering. Thank you!
Those are the officially supported distros. You can install other ones just fine. I doubt you’d find another laptop that had even just more than 1 officially supported distro.
Yeah, but I’d still like the peace of mind from knowing for sure other distros work, y’know?
What distro are you considering? I know e.g. Arch has a wiki page dedicated to the FrameWork and basically everything works.
Sure, fair enough. There are other distros supported by the community if you want to check that out too.
You honestly won’t find better than the support for framework in the laptop space. The arch wiki entry for it is fantastic, and having multiple supported distros is almost unique.
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Lenovo is renowned for their excellent linux compatibility. I’m sure you’ll get a bunch of proponents here saying the same.
BUT, oh boy. Don’t get me started…
Too late. Having used various models of thinkpads in recent years, their inconsistent keyboard layouts will drive you absolutely insane. I swear, at this point they’re just fucking with us.
I’ve got one in pieces somewhere, that has/had the ~ key next to the FN key on the bottom row! How the fuck are you supposed to use Linux if you’re ~ key is down there? It’s fucking stupid.
Not to mention their keys have a tendency to break off with just the mildest of fist slams.
AND the latest work-issued recent model is fucking with us again! It has the FN key ON THE LEFT SIDE of the Ctrl key on the left. Who does that? The Ctrl is always the left-most bottom key. Now, every time I fucking go to press Ctrl+something, I end up hitting FN instead.
Fucking morons! At this rate this laptop will also end up in pieces.
So, tldr; Stay the fuck away from Lenovo if you want to use Linux and not end up in prison for vehicular homicide.
Hahaha, I’m the opposite I’ve been so used to the thinkpad fn that I hate using other laptop keyboards.
Hear me out. Go to the BIOS. Swap Left Ctrl and FN! Thanks me later :)
Thank you! It’s a bloody miracle!
Oh :( As annoying as that is I can’t bring myself to completely take it off the board. Thanks for the warning, though! Nobody’s mentioned that so far :)
It’s not like other keyboards are better, I know why they are pissed and while it is annoying, Thinkpads X, T and P series are great linix machines.
What I don’t like is soldered RAM. I got T490 after almost a decade of using X220, because it, at least, had one ram slot. Now I am rocking 48GB of ram in reliable hardware which os completely supported in linux (except bt having some issues, but still).
What issues are you having with BT? I recently bought a second hand T490 and Fedora with KDE has been great! I have not extensively used BT, but I always use a BT keyboard and it has been fine :)
Microphone on my headphones is not working, it is connecting but codec is off. It us not working with second parmir different manufacturer.
I got bt usb dongle and both work with it.
I don’t know if the problem is in kernel driver or bt deamon…
The Fn and Carl keys can be switched in software. I have a work-issued Lenovo with a similar layout. They can be soft-swapped in the BIOS. There’s also a desktop utility to do the same but I don’t know if they have a Linux version of it. I totally agree, the physical layout is annoying but it has a simple fix.
I’ve had to borrow computers with fn and ctrl swapped. I understand shat you mean
Funny, I seriously considered getting one over the past year, but the past couple of months I’ve been reading all kinds of complaints about them. Seems there is a problem with consistent quality.
I have X1 Carbon Gen 6 and I love the laptop overall, I’ve been using it for 4 years so far. I don’t mind having fn and ctrl swapped, but my keyboard has also a stupid placement of PrntScr. It’s on the bottom row, right to the space bar. I can’t count times when I accidentally opened spectacle 50 times, because I hold the wrong key.
I have also happened to have a try with some newer thinkpads and they felt like the company made them worse on purpose. The material felt cheap, keyboard choppy and the trackpad absolutely abysmal with its lack of precision.
With the hardware support under Linux… yeah, they do work, but when you pick a new model, expect some missing features, worse power management, quicker thermal throttling etc. For me it significantly improved over time. With 10yo refurbished thinkpads Linux is great though, they say
Used Thinkpad from eBay is your best bet to start imo.
No question, excellent compatibility, will last you a while, you can get a nicer one once you get comfortable.
Spent $500 on this one to hold you over till you can afford a framework, or spend less, you can still get by with a decent one for $250 or so.
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I’m a fan of Framework laptops. They have given people the option to upgrade several motherboards by Intel and released an AMD version to boot. I don’t think there’s ever been a manufacturer that offered three generations of motherboards on the same chassis. The swappable ports are kind of neat, you can choose which ones you want to use
The 13" is already on sale with a 16" coming later this year
I’ve heard really highly of framework so far! They seem to be a great company, thanks :)
Just bought a second hand Lenovo p50, before framework’s most receng laptop, like the idea of a framework laptop but for now this thing is plenty powerful so can’t really justify upgrading for some years yet
I’m on my second Dell XPS 13 Developer laptop which comes with Ubuntu pre installed. I loved the first one but played too much Minecraft and wore out a couple of keys. I had it long enough that decent replacement keyboards were hard to find so I got a new laptop from the same line. I love the second one even more. My brother, also a Linux-using software professional, made the initial recommendation, so there is at least one other person who liked this line.
Ooo, nice! Although I don’t really want to use Ubuntu myself (nothing wrong with the distro itself, I’ve just tried others I like), the knowledge it’s Linux compatible is amazing!
I have two generations of XPS 15 running Linux without issue. You may need to disable secure boot depending on what distro you install, but beyond that everything works great 👍
Love my XPS 13, runs fedora with no issues. Such a solid laptop. Also love my 4K screen
I had an XPS 13 non developer for about 5 years. Ran any distro I threw at it. Upgraded to a frameworks last year though and not looking back. It’s all about that 3:2 display for me. The main thing I miss on the XPS is that it sipped power while suspended. I could leave it with the lid closed for a week unplugged and it would still be at 50% The framework 12th Gen is not so forgiving. If it sits in my bag all weekend it will be dead come Monday.
If you can you should try to savve up for a framework laptop
If your on a budget, an older Thinkpad is a good choice. I picked up a X220 with a charger and spare battery off of Craiglist a year ago for $60.
Ended up going with Coreboot with a SeaBIOS payload and Debian OS.
The x220 is quite easily the best laptop ever made imo, and I’ll never understand why they just don’t slap modern hardware into it and re-release it.
I have enough money to buy a more modern Lenovo laptop, but I’m definitely considering getting one renewed simply because of how cheap it is. I’d prefer newer age specs tho. Thank you!
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Ooo, nice! I’ve been meaning to learn more about cli/tui stuff, anyway. Thanks!
A framework 100%. The lowest end diy should be right around $1000, probably lower if you buy the third party parts yourself. And it’ll save you a few hundred bucks when it’s time to upgrade. Also keep an eye on the refurbs in the marketplace, they’re out of stock rn but that might change.
I know you mentioned System76, but I thought an anecdote of the gazelle 15 I bought during covid would help.
It’s the 2021 model with a 10th-gen i5, 16GB DDR4 RAM, a cheap 256 nvme SSD, and a GTX 1660ti for $1300. Very good laptop that I’ve used the hell out of since then. Has an excellent 120hz IPS panel (1080p) that’s just buttery smooth, and using pop_os on it has been very stable, even with all their firmware updates including the switch to coreboot for their UEFI. Plays all the games I needed to when I was away from home, and the keyboard is one of the best I’ve typed on, on a laptop.
Now my only issue with it, is the shell, which was not entirely metal as I was led to believe. It’s got some pretty cheap plastic for the bottom side that feels like it will crack if dropped even from a short height. I THINK this has been changed in newer models though, as they were using rebranded Clevo laptops for their chassis. Still, I hate that it’s half nice brushed aluminum looking metal and half brittle plastic housing a VERY (at the time) expensive parts. It’s the only flaw
Does this change my mind on buying System76? No, because I’ve seen their newer stuff and it’s made leaps and bounds from my laptop in just a couple of years, and I absolutely plan on buying a beefier Oryx Pro or something on the future. They’re excellent Linux machines
If you’re thinking of getting one, i personally would recommend getting one from https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/. Extremely good quality and a really clean distro with Tuxedo OS 2 although you are able to install on it whatever you want.
Thanks! They look good but are a little expensive :( they’re definitely a vendor I’ll look into in the future, though!
If you’re in Europe, I can recommend Tuxedo Computers. They specialise in making Linux based computers, and are highly configurable.
@PurrJPro You can’t go wrong with @tuxedocomputers but it’s gonna be hard to stay under 1000USD. Everything they have runs beautifully with linux and their support is far better than you’ll find anywhere else. I’ve bought more laptops over the past 20 years than anyone probably should, and finally going with #TUXEDOComputers was worth the little extra I spent on it.
If you want to just buy some cheap laptop off the shelf, that’s okay too, just do your homework first. Find out what hardware that exact part/model number has in it so you can know what sort of problems you may be dealing with later. I’ve bought at least 2 different models each of Sony, DELL, Acer, ASUS, HP, IBM, Lenovo, Apple, Compaq, 5~6 different off-brands I can’t remember. Some work great with no hassle at all, some take loads of fiddling, and some have hardware that just doesn’t work at all.
Tuxedo’s laptops r enticing from their sleek look alone, and their Linux support is enticing. If I’m ever in a spot to buy from them, I definitely will! As for cheap laptops, I’m heavily leaning towards a ThinkPad, although I’ll probably look at what other vendors offer Linux compatibility and how good it is. Thank you!
Buy a used Dell Latitude. They are business laptops that often get put up on eBay, so you can get them for $200-$750 depending on how old you’re willing to buy.
I bought a DIY Edition Framework Laptop 13 with an i5 1240p for about $1050 after buying my RAM and SSD on their own. This is the best option if you’re into modularity and upgradability and second only to buying used when it comes to environmental friendliness (in my opinion). Battery life isn’t anything to write home about at least on 12th Intel though, supposedly 13th gen Intel CPUs do better
Otherwise, System76, Tuxedo Computers, and Laptop with Linux are probably good options if you want Linux pre-installed. All 3 of those take Clevo laptops and make them their own.
Starlabs also looks like an interesting option, but I believe the Starlite is the only option under $1000 USD. As far as I know, they’re the only company that makes their own laptop chases from scratch for Linux.
Links:
Framework all the way!