The Green Party has announced that it wants to increase annual leave to five weeks.

Co-leader Marama Davidson told a crowd at a E Tū election launch in Māngere today that it would provide organisations with plenty of notice and ensure the full five weeks is available for everyone by the end of 2025.

This wouldn’t make NZ an unusual outlier globally, though perhaps it would be in this hemisphere - and that could be an attractive aspect as we continue to lose talent to Australia.

I’d like to see them carve out an exception for businesses that opt for a 32-hour 4-day week - either one works towards a better work-life balance and a 4-day week is a lot more personal days than just one week extra. Providing an exception for 4-day week businesses would avoid slowing uptake of the 4-day model for businesses that can make it work. The question is, how to balance the exception and leave changes for non-full-time employees?

Can NZ afford it? How many businesses are too fragile from the recent years of challenging operation. I suspect many can afford this, and that some have been pocketing the rewards of improved revenues in this inflationary environment without readily passing on those rewards. There could be more businesses struggling than we’d hope, that are too fragile from the challenges of recent years to wear the new costs.

Then again, maybe some negative impact is worthwhile for the improvement to the portion of the workforce that lacks the negotiating position to get such a deal - some executives and upper management certainly do enjoy such arrangements, including reduced days on massive salaries.

As an employee I like it.

  • Xcf456@lemmy.nz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    32
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    All this ‘we can’t afford it’ happened when we went from 3 weeks to 4 weeks annual leave 20 odd years ago.

    And when sick leave came in.

    And when the weekend came in.

    Every improvement to workers’ rights gets met with the same outcry. We’d still be in workhouses if we listened to it.

    • Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      You typically make those changes when the economy is doing well though, not in the middle of a cost of living crisis.

      I’d certainly like an extra week of annual leave, but cost of living is a far bigger concern to me right now.

      • Xcf456@lemmy.nz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        17
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Mate, if you’re concerned about the cost of living you should be worried about National prepared to dump over $15 billion onto the housing market through tax cuts geared at the upper end, landlord incentives and reintroducing foreign buyers. At the same time they’re wanting to put through other changes that will restrict new supply. Prices are going to absolutely explode again.

        I honestly don’t know how these types of changes track against the prevailing economic state, and it suspect it doesn’t really matter - every rise to the minimum wage, every increase in entitlements gets the same response.

        You could probably go check out the Parliament hansard records from 2007 when annual leave when from 3 weeks to 4 and find the exact same arguments.

          • Xcf456@lemmy.nz
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I wasn’t arguing? I was pointing out something to be concerned about if the concern is the cost of living crisis.

            What I was arguing was that increases to worker conditions gets opposed by vested interests on the same grounds every time, regardless of what the economy is doing. See, here’s former National MP Simon Power in Parliament in 2003 opposing the Holidays Act, which brought annual leave up from 3 weeks to the 4 we have now.

            We will not support a bill that is harmful to both employers, and people struggling out there to make a dollar in business, and we will not support a bill that, in the long run, will be bad for workers. National will be voting against this bill.

            • Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              1 year ago

              Just the fact that you show up in every thread ready to argue with anyone and everyone. It must be exhausting being you.

              • Xcf456@lemmy.nz
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                I mostly argue with you to be honest, which means you’re also in every thread. Not sure why you keep going for personal attacks though

                • Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  5
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  You must be new here, this guy has shown up in every single vaguely political post over the last few days primed and ready to go.

              • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                While I agree they seem very angry, I also recognized you as someone I tend to argue with.

                Small country

      • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Second this - right now we are expecting business to

        • significantly increase wages (minimum wage more than doubled while inflation was ~29%

        • recover from covid

        • build up financial reserves due to significant chance of recession

        • add on about an extra 3% in annual wages to cover leave

        • invest significantly in sustainability

        • while fighting staff shortages.

        Something is going to give

          • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            1 year ago

            I wouldn’t say wait until after the recession, because others are right its never a good time. What it needs is to be a part of a greater package and goal, not an ad-hoc vote gatherer at the cost of employers and inflation.

            Stop the focus on the 3 year election, and look at the longer issues our country faces and how developing these longer term goals can lead to a better working environment and reduced costs of living - an incredibly difficult task considering in the global scale our country is little more than a large suburb in a major city and we have little choice but to go with the flow.

  • Rangelus@lemmy.nz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    20
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    The time is never right. Making change always causes a bit of pain in the short time. That is not a reason to not try and improve our country.

    As a business owner I support this.

  • ciaocibai@lemmy.nz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    1 year ago

    What would be great if the parties in power put these kind of policies in place when they had the opportunity rather than when the are clearly going to lose the election.

  • Fizz@lemmy.nz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    Its nice but I don’t see why. Do people think we don’t get enough holidays here?

  • Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    1 year ago

    While I very much like the idea, I don’t think this is a good time to be implementing this at all.

    We’re on the edge of recession, inflation is out of control, I certainly can’t afford to go on holiday anyway. This is something you enact when the economy is actually doing well.

    • Mojojojo1993@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Best time is now. However I don’t see how green would manage this. Are they going to pay companies while we are away ? How’s that going to work for non profits ? This just screams bullshit propaganda.

      Would love to see them voted in just for them to turn around and say. Actually that’s not feasible. Similar to every other politicians bullshit manifesto.

        • Mojojojo1993@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          Of course. Then I get 5 weeks. Why wouldn’t it be ? Do you think your company would give you 5 weeks off ?

          • Panq@lemmy.nz
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Do you think your company would give you 5 weeks off ?

            I just asked for an extra week of annual leave instead of a tiny annual payrise back in the early days of COVID and they didn’t even bat an eye.

            Assuming you have the ability to unpaid leave once your four weeks are used up, five weeks is the equivalent of a ~1.9% pay rise. It’s a trivial cost in and of itself, though that is ignoring those jobs which are difficult to find cover for and might need hiring a temp or similar overheads.

            • Mojojojo1993@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Great your company is flexible.

              Unfortunately I think I’d still go for the pay increase. Haven’t had one of those. Desperately need one of those during this food inflation cycle

  • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    8
    ·
    1 year ago

    I cant agree with it.

    We aren’t a high productivity country and we produce low value goods. Forcing us to copy countries that make their money stripping and mining their country (lot looking at any Australia or anythinf), or had hundreds of years of investment and development isn’t a productive step forward.

    Get our businesses back on their feet, tourism churning over and education/health back, get our country developed in a sustainable way, get our population up and then start trying to copy everyone else.

    • Isoprenoid@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      tourism churning over

      Tourism is one of our lowest productive sectors and has been for over a decade. Paul Callaghan points this out in this video:

      “More tourism, [the] poorer you get” “We have no idea what productivity is. The French do and they don’t seem to work at all.”

      https://youtu.be/OhCAyIllnXY?t=466

      Working more hours doesn’t mean we’re being more productive.

      We aren’t a high productivity country and we produce low value goods.

      This isn’t entirely correct. We actually do produce high quality, high value items, they just aren’t things that you’d typically think of. I recommend watching the video I posted.

      • Rangelus@lemmy.nz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        Some very good points!

        In New Zealand, there is a strong bias for more hours = more productivity, and this isn’t even remotely true.

        • Panq@lemmy.nz
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          That’s a huge part of why we have 8 hour days/40 hour weeks/paid break times/etc. It’s less about workers’ rights, and more about folks being more productive when not overworked.

      • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Had a look - I feel like you cherry picked your facts.

        6:20 - low per capita gdp, 80% of oecd average per caputa

        7.20 - low value goods, except F&P and that pales to most of the competition

        Just after yours- low R&D and lack if investment.

        Edit: right on tourism being about 30% less productive than country average. On the other hand you can’t change skill sets and business investment in a day, so getting these back would get something back while we transfer and upskill