• Stalinwolf@lemmy.ca
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    1 day ago

    I still like Xonar cards, like the Xonar DG (though it isn’t compatible with my new PC). I always liked their interface more than the competitors, and it puts out excellent volume on my Logitech headset that is otherwise way too quiet for me. Never been a big fan of the simulated 3D environments on any of these cards, though. The only game it ever sounded decent in was No Man’s Sky, but even that still had a distant tinny sound to it.

    I think most people just use external amplifiers these days, but I’m still using a third-party sound card.

  • TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee
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    What? They did have onboard sound. The problem is that if you used the motherboard speaker to make anything more decent than a beep, you basically needed to build an entire sound engine from scratch and very few games did so. It also wasn’t worthwhile because a shitty two pin speaker could not compare to the speakers of a professional sound system which you needed the soundcard to hook up into, and CPU bandwidth was such a limitation back then than even when games could play WAV they would use MIDI to offload the musical instrument synthesizing for the soundtracks to the sound card. Designing a game that used the onboard sound speaker was basically the realm of assembly hacking geniuses.

    • CrayonRosary@lemmy.world
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      It also wasn’t worthwhile because a shitty two pin speaker

      All speakers are two pins. 🤔 They were crappy because they were most often little piezoelectric speakers, or otherwise very small where they couldn’t play low frequency sounds well.

  • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    And then three things happened at once

    1. Creative de-facto monopolized the industry often by unethical means (suing Aureal into bankruptcy, etc.), not letting much room for competitors, which in turn lead to diminishing quality on the part of Creative.
    2. Microsoft didn’t put hardware acceleration support into XAudio, which superseeded DirectSound.
    3. Game publishers realized the vast majority of gamers didn’t care about sound quality, so they could spent those resources on making the games look a little bit more realistic.
    • DefederateLemmyMl@feddit.nl
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      most PCs by that time had built-in MIDI synthesizers

      Built-in? You had AdLib cards for FM synthesis, but they were never built-in and most PCs didn’t even have them. Adlib cards used the Yamaha OPL2 or OPL3 chip.

      Along came Creative Labs with their AWE32, a synthesizer card that used wavetable synthesis instead of FM

      You are skipping a very important part here: cards that could output digital audio. The early Soundblaster cards were pioneers here (SB 1.0, SB 2.0, SB Pro, SB16). The SB16 for example was waaaaay more popular than the AWE32 ever was, even if it still used OPL3 based FM synth for music. It’s the reason why most soundcards in the 90s were “Soundblaster compatible”.

      Digital audio meant that you could have recorded digital sound effects in games. So when you fired the shotgun in Doom to kill demons, it would play actual sound effects of shotgun blasts and demon grunts instead of bleeps or something synthesized and it was awesome. This was the gamechanger that made soundcards popular, not wavetable.

      The wavetable cards I feel were more of a sideshow. They were interesting, and a nice upgrade, especially if you composed music. They never really took off though and they soon became obsolete as games switched from MIDI based audio to digital audio, for example Quake 1 already had its music on audio tracks on CD-ROM, making wavetable synthesis irrelevant.

      BTW, I also feel like you are selling FM synthesis short. The OPL chips kinda sucked for plain MIDI, especially with the Windows drivers, and they were never good at reproducing instrument sounds but if you knew how to program them and treated the chip as its own instrument rather than a tool to emulate real world instruments, they were capable of producing beautiful electronic music with a very typical sound signature. You should check out some of the adlib trackers, like AdTrack2 for some examples. Many games also had beautiful FM synthesized soundtracks, and I often preferred it over the AWE32 wavetable version (e.g. Doom, Descent, Dune)

    • Yaztromo@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Along came Creative Labs with their AWE32, a synthesizer card that used wavetable synthesis instead of FM.

      Creative Labs did wavetable synthesis well before the AWE32 — they released the Wave Blaster daughter board for the Sound Blaster 16, two full years before the AWE32 was released.

      (FWIW, I’m not familiar with any motherboards that had FM synthesis built-in in the mid 90’s. By this time, computers were getting fast enough to be able to do software-driven wavetable synthesis, so motherboards just came with a DAC).

      Where the Sound Blaster really shined was that the early models were effectively three cards in one — an Adlib card, a CMS card, and a DAC/ADC card (with models a year or two later also acting as CD-ROM interface cards). Everyone forgets about CMS because Adlib was more popular at the time, but it was capable of stereo FM synthesis, whereas the Adlib was only ever mono.

      (As publisher of The Sound Blaster Digest way back then, I had all of these cards and more. For a few years, Creative sent me virtually everything they made for review. AMA).

    • GoosLife@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      You just unlocked a memory for me. One of my dad’s friends had a super cool keyboard, I think it was a Casio. It had midi, and a bunch of built in instruments. Then he had another friend, who was a huge geek, who figured out how to extract the midi instruments from the keyboard, so we could use them to replace the cheaper sounding midi instruments in windows.

      Obviously it didn’t sound as good as the keyboard, because it still was dragged behind by inferior hardware on the PC. Not to mention the fact that some of the instruments just didn’t play, and that Windows liked to crash and revert all instruments back to the default if it didn’t like an instrument we tried to feed it, but I still remember it as something really badass.

    • thouartfrugal@lemmy.world
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      Most of Creative’s AWE32 cards do use a real Yamaha OPL3 chip for FM synthesis, which can produce two-or-four operator voices. The latter of those can approach the quality of the voices in their DX7-family line of musical instruments. Even the older OPL2 chip that is limited to two-operator voices can sound great when programmed well (not that I’d call it realistic-sounding).

      The other synth chip on the AWE32 is the Ensoniq EMU8000. That one does sample-based synthesis as you describe above.

      Just wanted to note that Creative misappropriated the term wavetable synthesis when they marketed this and other sample-based synthesis cards of theirs, and the misnomer spread widely to the products of other companies and persists to this day.

    • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      At the time (1995-ish) I was developing a series of Windows applications that let people compose music on their PCs, […] the actual quality of the music when played through a shitty built-in FM sound chip was depressingly awful

      And the a Atari ST and Amiga 500 was released in the late 1980s.

  • renrenPDX@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    My best friend gave me his sound blaster after upgrading to the Pro. Later I upgraded to a Gravis Ultrasound. Offloading sound processing to the sound card (1MB) improved gaming performance significantly.

  • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
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    3 days ago

    IRQ 5, I/O 220, DMA 01 🤘🏻

    I was poor, so mine was typically running the “or SoundBlaster compatible” card.

      • zerofk@lemm.ee
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        And if you kept pressing it, it would tell you off. Back when even installers had more soul than their games do now.

      • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
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        Yeah, IRQ7 was also pretty common for sound cards as long as you didn’t need to print at the same time. For DOS games, that wasn’t a big deal but if you were running Windows and multitasking with something that played sound (I was an early adopter of MP3s), you couldn’t use both at the same time.

        My first Pentium PC was all kinds of awful because it used that IBM Mwave combo sound card /modem. You couldn’t use the modem and play sound at the same time or it would lock the PC up. It was also configured by default to use IRQ7, so if you were online, you couldn’t print either. At least I was able to work around the latter by setting it to IRQ5.

    • psvrh@lemmy.ca
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      3 days ago

      Ugh…

      How did PCs beat out the Amiga, Mac and ST with nonsense like that?

      • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
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        3 days ago

        Because I could play the same copies of the same games on my Tandy 1000, the IBM PCs at school, and my friend’s Packard Bell. Standardized architecture was, and still is, a huge draw.

      • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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        How did PCs beat out the Amiga, Mac and ST with nonsense like that?

        I think you can ultimately blame Compaq. It was the first “pc clone” that showed the market that a PC not from expensive IBM was viable. After that even if you weren’t buying a Compaq your own generic clone was “good enough”. So You could access hardware and software built for a $4000 8088 IBM PC with your $1200 clone.

        Amiga never was commodity hardware. It was always expensive. It didn’t get cheap enough fast enough. Amiga 500 came too late.

      • frezik@midwest.social
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        3 days ago

        They couldn’t play Doom (until much later). Even to this day, the Amiga ports are lackluster. Hardware wasn’t designed for that kind of game.

    • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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      3 days ago

      Sounds poor.

      It was the early days of computers, so it’s not like that’s really saying much. Most of it was a mishmash of stuff

  • TheRagingGeek@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    How quickly we forget the chip tunes of the PC Speaker, I used it in a computer lab one day to play a nearly undetectable high freq wave using logo. The PC Speaker was a pretty flexible little speaker

    • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org
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      Flexible enough that Access Software built a library called RealSound that could do 6-bit PCM audio over it. Which isn’t great but is dramatically better than you’d expect. A bit over a dozen or so games used it.

      I had one called Mean Streets that used it for things like voice. The game came with instructions for how to build a cable to connect your internal speaker to an RCA cable to run to a stereo or similar.

      • TheRagingGeek@lemmy.world
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        Oh man that unlocked a memory of some attempts I heard of voices through PC Speaker that weren’t bad but definitely weren’t great lol

    • Evil_incarnate@lemm.ee
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      3 days ago

      I used the Amiga disk drive to play music. It sounds like you would imagine. And will destroy the drive if you play too much.

      • TheRagingGeek@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Nice I couldn’t imagine playing music on my c64’s 1541 drive the thing made scary knocking noises when it worked properly!

        • uid0gid0@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          The c64 could do all sorts of music over the TV speakers, even voices. Who can forget Impossible Mission “Another visitor, stay a while, stay forever!”

  • umbraroze@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    I miss my SoundBlaster Live! card. Excellent sound quality. Last used with the last computer I built, in the late-mid-2000s. That was the second computer I had that had on-board audio, and I just didn’t bother with on-board audio because I just straight up assumed it was going to be shit. Unfortunately it stopped working at some point, along with the GPU (I suspect a static electricity fuck-up on my part, or something) which didn’t matter all that much because I was mostly using the system as a server at that point.

    (I’m going to build a new NAS server from ground up later this year, and I’m contemplating getting an external DAC for it for use with musicpd. Wonder if there’s still SoundBlaster branded DACs, or are they gone? …Oh they’re still around!? Good.)

  • aulin@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Wait. When did onboard sound get good enough that you don’t need a soundcard? My computer is “only” 12ish years, and it has a soundcard. The reason used to be that internal ones sounded like shit.

    • Nommer@sh.itjust.works
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      I used to use a sound card until it died. When I researched how to get good sound I found most people use a DAC/amp combo now. But onboard is usually good enough. It was a noticable upgrade but not sure if it was worth the money.

  • 🇰 🔵 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️@yiffit.net
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    3 days ago

    The motherboard had nothing but the case usually had a speaker just to make a “beep” sound. I had to play Wolfenstein with that shit because my dad didn’t have a sound blaster until he also got a CD-ROM drive to play Doom since he could only find a copy on CD and not floppy disk.

    And even now, a SoundBlaster32 is better than the in-built audio stuff motherboards do have. Though it’s not worth getting one just for games.

    • brygphilomena@lemmy.world
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      And you had to have the audio cable to connect the cdrom drive if you wanted to listen to an audio CD. It was an interesting time.

    • Valmond@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      If you want good sound, buy an external usb DAC. It will be away from all electro magnetic interference and will be way better than any consumer stuff.

      • Aux@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Modern built-in DACs are insulated well enough for good sound. You only want to spend money on an external one if you want excellent sound.

          • Aux@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            Which should be shielded for any decent sound equipment. Also they come from the front panel, away from major interference sources.

            • Valmond@lemmy.world
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              Lol how do you think they get to that front panel?

              I mean sure go ahead and shield this and that (and still get em interference in the DAC card because it’s hooked up to the friggin PCI express bus on the motherboard) instead of using a simple USB cable.

    • ThirdWorldOrder@lemm.ee
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      3 days ago

      I had the original voodoo 3Dfx in 50lbs Alienware case with a 75 lbs 20+ inch crt… can’t remember the exact size. Wrong choice for university living at the time

    • MehBlah@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      VESA local bus. It was the shit and nothing was ever going to be better. Until next year.

    • HornedMeatBeast@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      I miss my Voodoo 2 3000 AGP card.

      I got an ABIT Siluro/ Geforce 2 MX400 after that and Diablo 2 ran worse, the frame rate tanked. I was gutted.

      Back in the day I tried to play Morrowind but every time I moved my mouse the game would crash, I started removing hardware until I found out it was my soundcard giving me issues, was an old ISA slot. Got a PCI soundcard after that and no issues.

      Those were the days.

      • neo@lemy.lol
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        3 days ago

        Shitty days, but days nonetheless, when PC gaming was the Dark Souls of gaming.