Fun fact: Torx screwdrivers are compatible with Torx Plus screws, but Trox Plus screwdrivers are only compatible with Torx screws that are one size larger

  • weeeeum@lemmy.worldEnglish
    88·
    4 months ago

    I repair a lot of tech and I have never seen torx other than the standard, and security version. And security torx drivers are compatible with regular torx

    • HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world
      5·
      4 months ago

      Torx plus is getting more common and you can use a torx bit on them still, and superior to torx IMO. I bet you’ve seen since but didn’t notice the difference. As a machine designer it’s my preference but I don’t often for cost

    • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
      4·
      4 months ago

      I assume all those are proprietary temper resistant, tool for it will be expensive so not many tool shop gonna have it.

      • scrion@lemmy.world
        14·
        4 months ago

        Not really. A solid set for security Torx is available for like $20 from reputable brands. Naturally, you can get higher quality sets and sets that add other security bits, but you still won’t land in an unacceptable price range even for private use, let alone a pro shop.

    • unalivejoy@lemm.eeEnglish
      2·
      4 months ago

      Security torx is actually very weak. If you don’t have the security bit, you can break it with a flat head and turn it into a normal torx.

    • Hugh_Jeggs@lemm.ee
      108·
      4 months ago

      Use torx all the time on not only building sites, but in machinery repair too.

      There’s only one type of torx and I think OP is winding us up :)

      Edit - ha ha oh my fucking god. So it turns out the patent for torx expired in 1990. No change for us in Europe, we’re still mostly using the original design.

      Not so much for the yanks. Textron, the original patent holder, realised it’d be faaaar more profitable to “licence” slightly improved designs and try to phase out the original

      Enjoy your torx my euro friends, and have a giggle at the seppos paying for a fucking screw head lol

      Greed to the point of mental illness 😂

      • renzev@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
        211·
        4 months ago

        There’s only one type of torx

        There isn’t. There’s Torx, Torx Plus, and Torx Paralobe. See here for more details: https://www.semblex.com/en/pdf-files/technology-files/torx-paralobe-pdf/ . Plus there’s also the ttap and tamper-resistant variants shown in the meme.

        As other people have mentioned, Torx screwdrivers are forwards compatible with Torx Plus and Torx Paralobe. But the screwdrivers for the newer standards are not backwards compatible with older screws.

        Similarly, Tamper-Resistant Torx screwdrivers can be used on regular Torx screws. But Tamper-Resistant Torx Plus screwdrivers cannot be used on regular Torx Plus screws – it’s a completely different shape!

        If you’re in a professional setting where you order high-quality screws and drivers in bulk directly from a manufacturer, I’d imagine that this isn’t much of an issue. But if you’re a hobbyist or just need to repair something in a domestic setting, the three different torx variants plus the other non-torx hexalobular screws (WA drive, Polydrive, T-Star Plus) can cause quite a bit of confusion. Anecdotally, I have a set of what I thought were really low-quality Torx bits. Turns out, they’re actually good-quality Torx Plus bits that by design don’t fit my Torx screws.

    • JustAnotherRando@lemmy.world
      24·
      4 months ago

      How do you feel about square drive? I’m no carpenter, just someone that’s done enough work around the house, but I’ve found that Torx are the best option but square is a close second (but I don’t think I’ve used them in any especially high torque situations, and they may fall short there).

        • thawed_caveman@lemmy.world
          410·
          4 months ago

          So square is a close second in terms of quality, while being vastly simpler and cheaper to manufacture. Seems to me like i’d prefer square.

          Also i’d be terrified of getting dirt in a torx screw, good luck cleaning it to make it usable again. Though i haven’t actually had this problem personally so it’s just a hunch

          • Betty_Boopie@lemmy.world
            11·
            4 months ago

            I have torx all over my mountain bike that gets caked in dirt, a little bit of water and a pick gets them usable in seconds. I could argue that hex is superior to square but they’re both worse than torx so who really cares.

          • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
            7·
            4 months ago

            Torx, hex, and square/Robertson all require broaching, generally with a rotary broach. The manufacturing process is basically identical, though the manufacturing of the machine tools varies slightly.

    • ThrowawaySobriquet@lemmy.world
      211·
      4 months ago

      Torx should be the default over Phillips for sure. Phillips is fine for shit like access panels or screw terminals. Slotted is useless for anything but the adjustment on pots and thermostats. Robertson is just a proto-torx. Everything else either exists to make someone money or is a bolt

    • Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee
      152·
      4 months ago

      Fellow contractor here. Torx or go home. Drywall screws are the only exception I’m willing to make.

    • saltesc@lemmy.world
      3·
      4 months ago

      And a set of Allen keys usually saves a trip to the hardware store if you’re missing the right size Torx bit.

  • iAvicenna@lemmy.world
    26·
    4 months ago

    the worst is not when the screwdriver is fucked but the screw is. That is some huge pain in the ass

      • iAvicenna@lemmy.world
        41·
        4 months ago

        wait really? I would imagine those small corners would easily get flattened compared to something with deeper ridges like philips

        • SparrowRanjitScaur@lemmy.world
          3·
          4 months ago

          Phillips strips way, way easier than Torx. Stripping generally happens when a screwdriver cams out, or pops out of the screw. Here are some excerpts from Wikipedia of Torx vs Phillips.

          The hexalobular socket screw drive, often referred to by the original proprietary brand name Torx ( /ˈtɔːrks/) or by the alternative generic name star drive, uses a star-shaped recess in the fastener with six rounded points. It was designed to permit increased torque transfer from the driver to the bit compared to other drive systems. The drive was developed in 1967[44] by Camcar Textron.[45] Torx is very popular in the automotive and electronics industries because of resistance to cam out, and extended bit life, as well as reduced operator fatigue by minimizing the need to bear down on the drive tool to prevent cam out.

          And Philips on the other hand:

          The Phillips screwdriver design has a tendency to cam out during operation due to angled contact surfaces which create an axial force pushing the driver out of the recess as torque is applied. Despite popular belief,[2] there is no clear evidence that this was a deliberate design feature. When the original patent application was filed in 1933, the inventors described the key objectives as providing a screw head recess that (a) may be produced by a simple punching operation and which (b) is adapted for firm engagement with a driving tool with “no tendency of the driver to cam out”.

          I’m not sure about Allen. It doesn’t cam out very much, but it does still strip a lot easier than Torx. Probably due to the smaller contact points.

          • hydrospanner@lemmy.world
            3·
            4 months ago

            Well said.

            And with the hex/Allen, it’s the small contact points as well as the smaller volume of material that needs to be deformed or removed before slippage can occur, as well as the angle of force on the contact point.

            With a hex, the contact point and direction are such that the tool is effectively trying to scrape off material at an angle, and if/when it succeeds even a little bit, it’s now much more prone to fail.

            With a Torx, the contact area might still be small, but it’s being applied to the lobe in a more perpendicular direction, so rather than a scraping failure, it’s more of a force that is pushing directly against steel instead of scraping. Not that it can’t fail, but the route to failure is significantly less likely.

        • Maalus@lemmy.world
          1·
          4 months ago

          Yeah, it was made with torque in mind (like, it’s in the name lol). For smaller screws using an impact, you can expect to break the screw before you strip the torx on top. And by smaller I don’t mean tiny, more like M4, M5

      • uis@lemm.ee
        13·
        4 months ago

        Maybe because different material? Obviously CrV steel won’t get fucked like chinesium, no matter the shape.

  • JadenSmith@sh.itjust.works
    23·
    4 months ago

    Useful tip: with security torx screws, with the little nub in the centre, if you get a small flathead screwdriver to jam in there and wiggle a bit, that centre bit will snap off without much difficulty.
    You should be able to use a regular Torx screwdriver bit after that.

  • Cobrachicken@lemmy.world
    221·
    4 months ago

    I have to admit that each time I saw a torx security screw on a case I had to open (looking at you, Compaq) this made me so angry that I used to punch the middle pin away with a flathead screwdriver, and replace the screw with a regular one later. This was in those past times I did not have a fuckton of assorted torx bits in a gigantic case…

    • ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world
      3·
      4 months ago

      I’m with you. I’ve replaced all the torx screws on my Dell with Philips head screws because fuck you Dell. (all the screws inside were already Philips)

    • NaoPb@eviltoast.orgEnglish
      3·
      4 months ago

      Didn’t Compaq use to have those torx with a slit in them where you could put a flathead screwdriver in the slit part?

        • NaoPb@eviltoast.orgEnglish
          4·
          4 months ago

          Yes I’ve always referred to them as Compaq screws but mainly because I personally saw them on Compaq first. I think HP bought Compaq at some point and that might explain why they are used on both brands. Don’t know which brand started using them first.

          I would have rather had they just used Phillips screws but as far as weird screwheads go these aren’t too bad.

          At least the good thing about them is the threads are standard and they can be replaced with a Phillipshead case screw just as well.

  • Lizardking27@lemmy.world
    257·
    4 months ago

    Lmao you’ve clearly never met Philips.

    And if you’re advocating slotted screws (flathead) you’ve already lost.

    Torx is supreme. The end.

    • BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works
      314·
      4 months ago

      LOL sure, good one… Only time that square abomination is the answer is if the question is “what do you get if you put a toddler in charge of designing a poor knockoff unbrako head?”

      TEAM TORX REPRESENT!

    • renzev@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      16·
      4 months ago

      I’m not canadian, so I don’t have a lot of experience with robertson. But from the limited experience that I do have, I would rate it 10/10.

      What would you recommend for smaller screws (e.g. for electronics)? As far as I know, there aren’t smaller sizes of robertson like there are with torx?

      • brap@lemmy.world
        12·
        4 months ago

        Pozidrive has real nice engagement and doesn’t cam out like Phillips does. And JIS drivers do a better job in Phillips than Phillips ones do.

        • HakFoo@lemmy.sdf.org
          10·
          4 months ago

          After wrecking some JIS screws on a vintage reciever, I bought a nice Vessel-brand JIS driver set, and use it for all my crosshead needs.

          • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works
            71·
            4 months ago

            I’ve driven tens of thousands of pozidrive 2/3 screws into timber with an impact driver. For whatever reason my experience is the diametric opposite of yours. Big up the Pozidrive massive.

            • Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee
              3·
              4 months ago

              It’s probably because of the impact driver. The bit seats back into the bottom of the slot between every impact. This doesn’t happen with normal drivers.

              • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works
                11·
                4 months ago

                People (try to) use a drill driver as opposed to an impact driver? Wow. I now understand why they could have a grim experience… thanks.

        • RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
          1·
          4 months ago

          Yeah but JIS for screws/bolts has been abandoned by the Japanese govt as of… 2005?

          My JIS screwdrivers are fantastic, not easy to torque out on a regular Phillips screw. Stick with the “vessel” brand.

          E: I can’t find anything more than discussion about it, nothing official. Sorry for the wrong info, looks like JIS screws are still alive.

        • Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee
          13·
          4 months ago

          Philips doesn’t cam out that easily either. Most people just don’t realize there’s three common sizes.

          • hydrospanner@lemmy.world
            1·
            4 months ago

            Philips doesn’t cam out that easily either.

            I mean…that’s an inherently subjective statement.

            But more objectively, regardless of how easily, it’s still the worst of the available options.

    • HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world
      1·
      4 months ago

      Its flaw is that you can only get to it in 90deg increments. When the screw is in a hard to reach place that will drive you crazy

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
    174·
    4 months ago

    I’m Jewish, so I’m going to have to go with the tamper-resistant Torx when I need to use screws on myself.

    Edit: A troll flagged this as antisemitic, so apparently I hate my own ethnicity?

    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      7·
      4 months ago

      they’re pretty good but semi liable to stripping due to lower surface area, as long as you use the right tool, and a quality one, you’ll be fine though.

      Also hex is somewhat inter-compatible with torx, which is really cursed.

      • Aux@lemmy.world
        24·
        4 months ago

        Torx are easier to strip, especially the smaller sizes. They’re pretty much single use screws.

        • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          11·
          4 months ago

          small screws in general are just easy to strip. Small torx is also liable to breaking a driver, like most small screws and drivers.

          Torx though, i’ve never had strip out once, even doing construction with them. Phillips on the other hand, they kill screws constantly, and the bits themselves get all chewed up causing all kinds of problems. Torx bits still look fine though.

          Torx aren’t exactly tapered, so they much less of a problem with stripping, compared to any tapered design, because tapered designs have issues with backing off.

          • Aux@lemmy.world
            1·
            4 months ago

            small screws in general are just easy to strip

            Hexes are very sturdy. I ride mountain bikes and for some reason brake rotors are secured with Torx while all other screws are hexes. Torx on rotors are usually tightened to 4-6Nm and they are single use 99% of the time. At the same time there are plenty of hexes of the same size which are tightened to 8-10Nm and there are zero issues.

            Torx are fucking useless. And don’t get me started on tiny Torxes in laptops…

            • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              1·
              4 months ago

              you’re not using like, soft fasteners or some shit right?

              I could see hex performing better on a softer material. That or you’re doing something goofy. I’d be surprised if torx were stripping at that low of a torque rating, unless ur using hex drivers on them or something.

              • Aux@lemmy.world
                1·
                4 months ago

                Fasteners are standard from rotor manufacturers. I have no clue what they’re made out of. But in 30 years of cycling I’ve never had a single Torx which would last more than one cycle of screw in screw out.

                • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                  1·
                  4 months ago

                  that’s bizarre. Torx are commonly used in construction with impact drivers, and in vehicles as well. Very rarely are they ever problematic, and that’s with quite significant shock loading as well as torque application in the case of construction, i would imagine more than in a bike, but i wouldn’t be able to say off the top of my head, though they might be bigger standard head sizes, so that could be it.

                  Regardless, begs the question why hex screws aren’t in construction, those should be simpler and easier to produce.

    • amenji@programming.dev
      31·
      4 months ago

      I don’t use screw drivers enough to know what these are for. But from a programmer’s standpoint, punishing people to deviate away from standard may cause more harm than good, no?

      Suppose it’s easier/cheaper/more effective to deviate a bit from standard, why should I be punished to do things a bit differently?

      • monotremata@lemmy.caEnglish
        5·
        4 months ago

        One issue is that it can be leveraged to maintain a monopoly. Microsoft famously made a bunch of small modifications to the HTML standard, so that web sites that wanted to work with MS Internet Explorer had to write custom versions to be compatible. But because so many people just used IE because it was bundled with Windows, those “extensions” started to become their own standard, so that then other browsers had to adopt MS’s idiosyncrasies in order to be compatible with the sites, which in turn harmed standardization itself. They even had a term for this technique: “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.” It nearly worked for them until Google pushed them out with Chrome. Microsoft tried to do the same thing again with Java until the government got involved.

        It’s complicated, certainly, but there are legitimate cases where “just a little tweak” can be quite a big problem for a standard.

      • whoreticulture@lemmy.world
        1·
        4 months ago

        Think about all the micro USB, lightning cables, USB cables etc. In programming it’s different, but for this stuff it’s a waste of money and actual resources.